.223 Rem of .204 Ruger for AR-15 Varminter?

[John Ciccone]

I've decided I want a tricked-out AR-15 for a Varminter (previous discussions indicate that Rock River and DPMS offer good value for factory-built guns).

But I have a question about caliber. I've heard that .223 looses energy and accuracy after about 250 yards with standard weight bullets (55 grain). The Varmint guns offer fast twist rates of 1 in 8 for heavier bullets up to 70 grains.

Do these bullets offer varmint accuracy (1/2 to 3/4 of an inch at 100 yds) to be effective out to 300-350 yards (400?)?

What is your opinion of the 204 Ruger in an AR-15 type rifle. (If I reload I can afford it, not if I have to buy enough for a 3-day varmint trip.)

Thanks for your opinions,

John Ciccone

[hazard]

i personally would go with a 223, cheaper to shoot, more fun to plink with in the off season imho. you wont have any problem killing varmints/predators at 300-400 yards, may take a little practice bu shouldnt be a problem. i would say you would be safe to go with any of rra's varmint series,predator series, or coyote rifles with at least a 20 inch barrell. i really dont know too much about the 204, ive shot a few of them but i guess i wasnt overly impressed with them but dont get me wrong they are nice and have there place but i would just as soon have a 223, also i dont reload so that kind of has something to do with it in my defense. good luck hopefully this helps, not trying to bash on 204 either just stating my opinion.

thanks
adam

[Dave H]

I recently saw a pretty lively discussion on a predator forum[may have been this one] a few days ago that I can't find NOW where folk were saying that a .204 was a marginal coyote killer at distance, at best..now that would have been from your 22-250 and .223 crowd to which successful .204 hunters said that BAD shot placement was their problem as they had no trouble killing coyotes. Was lively but no blows had been struck when I last read.

I have a RRA .223 Varminter w/EOP, 24" 1-12 barrel that shoots good and a CZ 527 in .204 that is an excellent shooter - neither has ever fired a shot at a coyote but both will shoot much better than I can and I have worn PD's out at ranges up to 408 yards.

I have other .223s and .204s and all are good shooters but my next AR purchase will be a RRA Varminter .223 upper w/EOP and a 16" 1 in 8 twist as I like short barrels and want to shoot heavier bullets than my 1 in 12 will handle.

Probably a Ford- Chevy thing but I do like my RRA.

[Rick in Ohio]

Man if I had to pick one it would be the 204 over the 233.
Why that is the 204 faster and flater shooting and it cost just about the same to reload as the 223.
My 204 rifles are the frist rifle I would pick if I was going to go out hunting.
I think this year on my trip out west that will be the only rifles I will be taking along. The other rifles will be staying in the gun safe at home.

[HEAD0001]

This is just my opinion based on my experience. I am not a chart reader, or for that matter a chart believer.

By looking at your post I would guess you are hunting eastern ground hog's. IMO eastern ground hog's can be a tough "critter" to put down. I would go with the 223 for that reason only. I shoot the 50 grain V-Max in my RR Varminter. I use the Leupold Varmint Hunter Reticle. Holding dead on out to 425 yards is a breeze(with the reticle). The problem is (IMO) that the limit for effective one shot kill's with either cartridge(on eastern chuck's) is 325 yards. When I take a shot over 250 yards, I always deliver a second "double tap". The second shot may not always be necessary, but it sure is fun(and ethical).

I am not a PD shooter, or a coyote shooter, so I can not speak to the effective killing power of the two cartridge's against these two critter's. But I sure do like the bigger bullet's for eastern chuck's.

The 204 may be faster, but if your goal is 300, 400, or 500 yards then you will still need to LRF the distance. So flatter may be a bit better, but not very much IMO.

As far as cost is concerned they are relatively close. I still believe the 223 would be slighltly less expensive(overall). Brass should be cheaper, and the actual upper should be cheaper. I also always consider resale value when I buy a rifle(I tend to upgrade alot). IMO the 223 would hold it's value better.

Look real close at the RR Varminter. I have the 20 inch version. The rifle is incredibly accurate. I bought two cases of Black Hill's ammo when I bought my rifle. I was going to shoot it up, then use the brass to reload. After I shot the ammo I realized I found my load. Below is a 300 yard 3 shot group I shor from my RR. I do not think I can reload a more accurate load. Tom.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o223/HEAD0001/IMG_0179.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o223/HEAD0001/IMG_0404.jpg

[dannybracy]

I just got this last weekend and havn't shot it yet but my FFL has one and LOVES it. He also owns many colts and RRA AR's. It is a Superior Arms 20" Bull Varmint w/ a true 7 degree crown and a RRA 2 stage match trigger free float forearm and a tactical latch. Brought it home for $875 with everything installed and including taxes! There is no slop between lowers and each AR is hand put together by the 2 owners. Just my 2 cents............. Hope to shoot mine this weekend when I get some free time and let you all know how it bangs. -Dan

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj95/dannybracy/IMG_0953small.jpg

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj95/dannybracy/IMG_0955small.jpg

[PatR]

or .20-.223 for us non tactiKool folks. This has an advantage over the .204 Ruger in an AR because you can use a regular .223 magazine and lower, plus you can make brass out of your standard .223 Remington brass with one die. Velocity is good and cost is lower do to cheaper brass.

[Catfish]

I have a .204 that is a tack drive with the 32 gn. Sierra bullets, but after hitting 4 coyotes 1 day with them and not getting a 1 of them I gave up on my .204. If you go with a .204 make sure that you have a twist fast enough to stablize the 35 gn. Bergers. From what I hear they are the bullet of choice for hide hunters useing the .204 for coyote.
I carry 2 coyote guns in my pick-up. For long shots I carry a .22-6mm, my reach out and touch them gun. The other is a RR AR. It is my up close and personal gun. I carry it when running dogs or when I think most shots will be less than 250 yrds. When I bought th RR I got the varminter, but at just over 16 lbs. with the weight in the stock it was not what I wanted, so I picked up another RR upper. It`s now a flat top with a 3 x 9 Leupold on it and I love it. To bad you don`t live closer if your wanting a heavy varmint set up as I still have the heavey barreled RR upper with a 4 1/2 x 14 Leupold, already zeroed, on it.

[Doug Roberts]

I have 2.5 AR15s. That is..... I have 2 lowers and 3 uppers. Two of the uppers are 24" varminters, one in .223 and one in.204. The .204 is Premier Arms and shoots circles around the RRA .223 upper. The third upper is a DPMS .223 16" HBAR. It's fun to shoot but not up to the accuracy of the other two, naturally. Magazines are totally interchangeable, gun to gun, regardless of caliber. We don't use the ARs for p doggin' much because we don't like to chase the brass but there's no doubt they are up to the job! All that said, if I only had one, it would definitely be a .223 for economic reasons.

[CZ223]

so some of what I have to say has already been said, of that I am sure. I love the 204 ruger and can not wait to get a chance to use it on Prairie dogs. That said, I have never been disappointed with the 223 on prarie dogs. The 2 times that I went out my second rifle was a 220 Swift which I used for anything beyond about 400 yards. I have two AR's that are close to half inch guns at 100 yards and that is plenty good for p-dogs. If i were ever to want to take a an AR for Varmint hunting it would be in 223. The 223 is still cheaper to shoot because of the availbilit of relatively chep bullets, not so for the 204. The 204 is a great cartridge but if you don't have one yet get a Savage VLP for the price of the upper for the AR.