Help Me Out Guys

[RichsFishin]

Well just got a Traditions Fox River .54 percussion cap muzzle loader and need some advice. I've owned a inline before but this type is all new to me. I know where the #11 cap goes but not sure what amount of powder to use and do I use greased patches or dry ? Any help for a new guy? Thanks .........Rich

[Rhys]

Lubed patch, a good place to start is about 1.5 x bore diameter or in your case 75-80 grains. then just work with patch thickness, and charge weight to find what it likes. Rarely have I seen a muzzle loader that shot at it's best beyond 100 grains, most have been between 60 and 90.

[RichsFishin]

Thanks for the advice.................Rich

[Army]

The in-lines crave sabot's and pellets. The twist is usually much too fast for patched ball.

*edit* OK, total "DUH" on my part :) Realized you meant a real smokepole after reading the OP a few times. Hey, it's like really late and things over here!!

[BarryinPa]

You did not mention if you were intending to shoot round balls or a maxi ball type of bullet. anyhow having shot flintlocks for alot of years, and killed alot of deer, I would shoot a maxi type ball if legal. no patching, only grease the ball. back when Pa was round ball only, had some real tracking jobs on the deer, but with a maxi type ball, very different story. I have a 50 and a 54, and now that we can, I only shoot the maxi, most rifles of your type have a 48 twist and are accurate with either. of course I don't think you mentioned what you were intending to shoot with it. they are fun either way.
Barry

[RichsFishin]

I plan on using it for deer. Is the maxi ball sorta like a sabot? I think I know what it is but not sure. The gun came with Hornady round balls. I traded some fishing gear for this gun . The twist is 1 in 48.Any other help would be appreciated. Thanks Again. Oh How far can I expect to get out with this gun ? ..........................Rich

[RichsFishin]

Looked at Cabelas and the maxi ball is what I thought it was. So I don't need patches for it ?.............................Rich

[BarryinPa]

Rich no you do not need to patch a maxiball. Only round balls need a greased patch as they are undersize by about .010. The tc maxi is what I use, have molds to make my own. they do need to have grease in the groove's though. I use the t/c bore butter stuff. works good. there are several other products that probably do as well. I have killed maybe like 40+ deer with my flintlocks, most with the 50 as I have had that the longest. Use mostly the 54 since I got it. anyhow my point is that there is a big difference between the round ball and maxi. they weigh around 2x's as much, and make a bigger hole and more penetration. we have had some tough trailing jobs from the round ball, as they do kill well, but do not seem to make for a good blood trail. anyhow good luck with it. Barry

[Oleman]

I plan on using it for deer. Is the maxi ball sorta like a sabot? I think I know what it is but not sure. The gun came with Hornady round balls. I traded some fishing gear for this gun . The twist is 1 in 48.Any other help would be appreciated. Thanks Again. Oh How far can I expect to get out with this gun ? ..........................Rich

Your twist isn't fast enough for the Maxi's at 48 looks like you'll be shooting balls to me.

[RichsFishin]

GREAT one of you are telling me to use a maxi ball and one isn't ? LOL....Guess I'll just have to shoot both and go from there. Thanks for the replys though. Like I said its all new to me.............Rich

[Oleman]

GREAT one of you are telling me to use a maxi ball and one isn't ? LOL....Guess I'll just have to shoot both and go from there. Thanks for the replys though. Like I said its all new to me.............Rich

Rich don't buy to many of those Maxi's then shoot them and compare the results. It won't take long to figure it out. My guess is you go with the round balls in less than 20 rounds.

[BarryinPa]

well, Rich guess you have to make up your own mind. I have been shooting t/c flintlocks since Penna started the season for them, and that must be 20 years. have killed lots of deer. as to twist, not sure what the twist is on my 54, but my 50 renegade is a 48, which t/c considers a compromise for either. t/c round ball guns have a 66 or so twist. like I say, not sure about the 54, but I get acceptable accuracy for muzzleloader ranges with either one. I shoot the maxi balls because they leave a much better blood trail if they don't drop right there. we nearly lost a few deer when we had to use round balls, as they did not open up enough, but there was sure enough blood inside of them. since you have 2 very different opinions, guess its up to you. I can only relate my experience. for myself I will continue to shoot maxi balls in my flintlocks as long as it stays legal here in pa. I am sure if you look for a muzzleloader site, you can get more than 2 opinions.
Barry

[BarryinPa]

while I'm on the subject, I will relate a story, one of the reasons I no longer use the round ball in my flintlocks. while hunting with friends way back when we had to use the round ball by law here, a deer came towards me head on, I aimed for front center, fired. the deer ran down hill. about 100yds below me someone fired. went to look up my shot, no blood, no hair. the deer kicked up leaves running, I followed looking for blood. none to be found, came upon my buddy gutting the deer. he said he fired broadside, the deer dropped in its tracks, he assumed a spine shot. anyhow we should have known when he gutted it, as the insides were liquid, all blood. no heart, blown up. well when we skinned it that night, no hole broadside, onle one dead center front. I killed the deer, he missed. but I found no blood. this has happend to us more than once. and I think it is the reason Pa went back to allowing the maxi ball, after being a round ball only state. So my opinion is that the maxi is a better projectile to use if you want to not only kill your deer but find it. I've shot both, and I cannot see much of a difference in accuracy if any. course I do not see the iron sights as well as I used to, but still kill at least one deer a year with my flintlocks. anyhow I hope you have a good time with it, I will always shoot mine.
Barry

[RichsFishin]

Thanks for your story Barry. I am going to try both and see what they do on a 5 gallon bucket filled with sand and see which one goes in farther or see which one has the bigger hole out the back.:eek: . Like I said thanks again for all the advice and I'm sure I'll have more questions to come later.........Rich

[James Staggs]

I've used both, I always liked the roundballs driven as fast as I could keep from burning up the patch.
The maxi's will penetrate end to end on a deer and don't drop as bad beyond 150 yards, but I always like the DRT reaction of a solid hit from a roundball.
Think I always shot 110 gr of P pyro, behind a 495 roundball, and 85 gr behind a maxi, they both work, maxi's do have more range, most 48 twists will like 1 better than the other, so give them both a whirl.

and barry from what I've saw on full front on shots with a maxi, you would have gotten the same results, when you take out the vitals, sometimes it takes them a bit to realize they are dead, the maxi may have penetrated deeper, but wouldn't have done as much damage to the vitals, they are very poor at transfering hydrostatic shock unless you hit the shoulder.
JS

[mwatson]

I would say no more than 100 grains and lubed patch.
Mike

[charlie sterner]

try a .530 round ball (I like Hornady or buffalo balls rather than Speer) and a .015" LUBED Oxyoke patch. If it seems too tight, then back off to a .010" patch.

You didn't mention what grain powder you're using. I'll assume you're using FF, then start at 60 grains and work up to 100. I'd bet a dollar (I'm no gambler) that you'll find it likes somewhere between 70-90 grains best.

If it were my gun, I'd go with a 460 grain maxi ball or even maybe try one of the lighter weight CVA Powerbelt bullets. Start at 70 grains FF and work up to maybe 110 with a maxiball.

My results mirror Barry's. I've not killed as many with my "flinchlock" as he has, but I'll definitely say round balls do NOT give near the shock of a maxi. I'd sacrifice a little accuracy over better bullet performance any day.

Charlie

[Fuzz]

Watching the thread and the one about about coming to Florida and wondering if you are doing any practicing for the Hunt? Have you called the local parks. If your skill is there, than your hunt will be successful! After you make some calls and get xero'd in let me know how If I can help...

[FRED M]

I have both, a TC Renegade, 50cal, 48 twist and a Interarms 50gal, 56 twist.
The 56 twist will shoot groups half the size of the 48 twist using a .490" RB.
I'm talking 1 1/2" vs 3" at 100yd. Never did shoot any Maxi's or Sabots.
I shoot real B/P, Pyrodex sucks, no ignition problems with B/P. Hot soapy water cleans the barrel just fine.
Altho not recommended, I shoot FFF in my M/L, FF is harder to light, 75gr for target and 100gr for hunting.
One thing to watch out for is a RB will punch through the slats and the deer will run. Check for hair and blood where it was shot. Any evidence of a hit means to start tracking.
Once the blood fills the chest to the bullet hole, it will start squirting out and now you have a blood trail to follow. Depending on the location of the hole, it will be anywhere from 30 to 100yds.
Tracking works best with two. One stays at the last blood spot while the other looks for the next one. Then he will stay there while the other leapfrogs forward looking for the next blood spot. The blood trail will get heavier the closer you get. Soon you will find your deer.
I would much rather shoot a large deer but sometimes you have to settle for a small one. One Skippy I got, dropped at the shot then jumped up and ran 75yds smack into a large oak tree, that anchored him. no tracking required.