20-225 and coyotes

[Charlie g]

:) SHOT sum paper today this new wildcat looks darn good at 1-2-3-4 100yards cannot wait to group it with fire-formed loads. The first loads use 27grs of 3031 with 40gr bt barrel has 1-9 twist

[Catfish]

Let me guess, this is a break gun and not a bolt gun. At least that is the only reason I could see to go with the .225 parent case. I was reading an artical on the .20-250 and they were getting surfice splash on coyote with it, and your velosity will be real close so you may also run into this problem. Should be a screamer.

[Charlie g]

the action is rolling block 1875 but was caseharden Swedish will take alot of pressure. I know some people dont like them but work with one and they will think twice. Will have to work on the trigger pull I think its about 8 lbs. Will use 50gr Berger when I have lots of brass fire-formed

[Markbo]

225? What parent case is that?

[DAA]

.225 Win. is the parent case :) .

Sounds like a fun rifle. My .20-250 worked out pretty well for coyotes, I'm sure this will too.

- DAA

[Tommers]

Charlie,

A buddy is in the process of building a 20-225 and I plan to do the same. Have you tried any heavier bullets yet? I'm very interested to know what velocities you're getting!

Tom

[Charlie g]

The 225 has about the same Vol. as the 22-250 case but I needed a rimmed case because of the action. have you shot any 50gr Bergers yet

[DAA]

No, I have not tried anything heavier than a 45 gr. in mine. It's a 12 twist, so not likely to work with the 50's even if I wanted to use them. But really, I actually don't even plan on using anything as heavy as the 45's. I put mine together looking for extreme flatness of trajectory for maximum point blank range. Bullets of about 38 gr. are just about right for my application - and that's what I've pretty well settled on using at this point.

- DAA

[Charlie g]

All that I have used is 40gr Nosler sited in at 100yds at 200 it was 5in. high and at 300 it was 2 1/2 high at 400 it was 1 1/2 low not to bad for fire-form loads.

[Darrel in Minn]

DAA, What kind of fur damage does that do to coyotes and what bullet do you use? Darrel

[DAA]

Darrel, fur damage with my .20-250 had been extremely variable. I've mostly been trying different bullets, experimenting, and a lot of what I have tried has been extremely hard on fur. Probably the worst so far was the 40 gr. Berger. On anything under 100 yards, they were just tearing giant entrance holes.

As of the end of this last season though, I've now killed quite a few coyotes with a 38 gr. boat tail that Don Unmussig made for me on .224 J4 jackets. Have not had any really big holes in any coyotes with that bullet. All in all, it has worked really well so far. Also, right towards the very end of the season I got to kill just a few with a bonded core 38 gr. made by Gunhaus, and they performed perfectly too.

I plan to start next season off with the Gunhaus bullets, so I can see how they perform on a dozen or more coyotes. But as of this minute, the best bullet for me so far has been the Unmussig 38 - simply because I have used it a lot more and killed a lot more coyotes with it.

You can read more than you ever wanted to about bullet performance on coyotes using my .20-250 on my website at:

http://www.rmvh.com/20-250%20-%20Bullet%20Selection.htm

- DAA

[Darrel in Minn]

DAA, An interesting read. If I understand correctly the project is not a complete success? How do you compare it to the 17 Predator project? Hopefully no one object to this as a tread hijacking. The speed and trajectory of a 20-225 or 20-250 is interesting to say the least. Darrel

[DAA]

Darrel, I need to get around to updating my article one of these days. But at this point, now that I have had a chance to use the Unmussig 38's a lot more, I do consider the project a complete success. Just took awhile to get there :) .

Compared to the .17 Predator though, well, the .17P is still my favorite "every stand" rig, by far. The .20-250 is a lot more specialized. Neat project, worked out to accomplish what I wanted, and a useful tool. Glad I have it. But, my .17P is still the closest thing to a perfect all around coyote hunting rig that I have ever used. If I could only keep one of them I wouldn't even have to think about it - I'd be keeping that .17!

- DAA

[Charlie g]

Your 38gr bullets sound ok but I think the 40gr or 50gr will do just right for that I had in mind. IN this neck of the woods we are seeing more coyotes over 50lbs I hunt with dogs and shots range 200 to 400yards under that I use my 17-225

[Bayou City Boy]

DAA:

Just curious as to how and why you settled on a 38 grain bullet....

-BCB

[DAA]

Just curious as to how and why you settled on a 38 grain bullet....


BCB, the full explanation would be overly long and probably overly boring too. Trying to keep my answer short, I was looking to maximize MPBR, while also getting good effective terminal performance on coyotes over a decently broad range. Lighter bullets would mean more velocity and even flatter trajectory, but possibly less than satisfactory terminal performance. Heavier bullets mean less velocity and a trajectory penalty - and possibly not giving more satisfactory terminal performance (I've proven to my own satisfaction that the 38's I'm using kill better than at least some 40's do, for instance).

I really don't have much in the way of conclusive answers to any of this stuff though. It takes a lot of coyotes to really get a solid trend to prove anything one way or the other, so I tend to be satisfied with simply achieving the goals I've set and try not to let "better become the enemy of good".

- DAA

[Charlie g]

Just read your web page and it`s nice to know a wildcatter with the same goals as myself always looking for ways to enhance the shooting sport. Would you let know when this bullet (38gr) will be for sale it mite be hard to import to Canada but sure will try.

[Bayou City Boy]

BCB, the full explanation would be overly long and probably overly boring too. Trying to keep my answer short, I was looking to maximize MPBR, while also getting good effective terminal performance on coyotes over a decently broad range. Lighter bullets would mean more velocity and even flatter trajectory, but possibly less than satisfactory terminal performance. Heavier bullets mean less velocity and a trajectory penalty - and possibly not giving more satisfactory terminal performance (I've proven to my own satisfaction that the 38's I'm using kill better than at least some 40's do, for instance).

I really don't have much in the way of conclusive answers to any of this stuff though. It takes a lot of coyotes to really get a solid trend to prove anything one way or the other, so I tend to be satisfied with simply achieving the goals I've set and try not to let "better become the enemy of good".

- DAA

Thanks, DAA.....

I started swaging 20 caliber bullets for my own use back in early 2000, and after playing with various lengths and weights of bullets, I settled on a fairly long 38 grain HP for use in my Tac 20 rifles. When the 204 Ruger came along, I found them to work very well in that cartridge also.

As a result, the 38 grain HP bullet is the only bullet I swage at this time for those two cartridges. I still make a short 32 grain bullet for use in my Schroeder conversion 5MM CF, but I feel the 38 grain bullet and the bigger 20 caliber cases work very well together.

I've tried Corbin, J-4, and Sierra .224" jackets swaged down, and I have found the Sierra jackets to be the most accurate in my rifles. In addition, the Sierra jacket seems to hold together well for coyote use, even though I've not killed a large number of coyotes with the bullet.

As you've found, 38 grain bullet should be a real flat shooter in your big cased 20-250...

-BCB

[Bayou City Boy]

Whoops...! Double post....

-BCB

[Markbo]

BCB - do you happen to have before and after pics of those bullets?

[Bayou City Boy]

BCB - do you happen to have before and after pics of those bullets?

I guess I'm gonna' need some extra help..... Before and after what....?

-BCB

[Markbo]

Before at .224 and after swaging them down to .20.

[Bayou City Boy]

Sorry....no pictures.

For clarification, I'm not swaging a .224" bullet down to .204". I'm merely swaging an empty .224" bullet jacket down to @ .198" using a jacket reducing die.

Then a lead core is swaged inside the jacket and the jacket/core combination is then ran into a point forming die which, by the two processes, bumps the outside diameter of the jacket back up to .204".

Maybe looking at Dave Corbin's web site and doing some reading will help with the understanding...

-BCB

[Markbo]

I know the process, I just misunderstood your post. The same process as forming .22 rimfire rounds into jackets then inserting the lead cores or copper tubing, etc, etc.

I didn't know bullet manufacturers sold just jackets.

[Bayou City Boy]

I know the process, I just misunderstood your post. The same process as forming .22 rimfire rounds into jackets then inserting the lead cores or copper tubing, etc, etc.

I didn't know bullet manufacturers sold just jackets.

Spiveco, who once made J-4 jackets, was bought out by a larger company and J-4's are now linked with Berger bullets after the second company buying Walt Berger's business.

Sierra sells jackets also. I don't know about any other bullet manufacturers selling just jackets.

The quality of bullets made from precision drawn jackets far exceeds those made from "ironed" 22 LR cases

-BCb