Which 17hm2 rifle? [Archive] - Varmints Den

: Which 17hm2 rifle?


Shaman
04-02-2009, 01:24 AM
I have decided that i want a hm2 for paper punching at 100 yards. I am just trying to figure out which gun to get. Gun will probably also be used for varmints and other up to skunk size animals grandma doesn't want. My options

Cnverted 10/22 - $300
Marlin or Savage
Sako Quad with available 22 WMR or HMR barrel - $400? plus barrel
77/22 and the same thing as the Sako - $400-450 plus barrel etc

I have several 22LRs, and a few 223, but want to paper punch for $4 a box, and that I have been told will usually at that price point have the hm2 more accurate than the 22lr.

Canazes9
04-02-2009, 07:15 AM
http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=2

Hogchaser
04-02-2009, 07:59 AM
http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=2

I agree check out the CZs.

Doug Roberts
04-02-2009, 08:13 AM
That would be "Czech out the CZ"..............I agree! :)

gonzo gunner
04-02-2009, 08:35 AM
i have 2 hmr's and a hm2. no matter what i have tried and had done to the hm2 the hmr's out proform them at any range. with eley hm2 ammo it gets well over 1 inch groups. the hmr's are under 1 inch groups. the hm2 is no place near as accurate as the .22lr. they are just made for longer ranges. just reload for your .223's. you'll have a more accurate round at 100 yards than the hm2 for about the same money.

kid
04-02-2009, 09:23 AM
And it's a converted 10/22. With Hornady ammo I get 3/4" to 7/8" at 100 with no wind. Mine is by no means a tack driver and my 2 HMR's shoot better, but I like the ability to pull out a 10/22 and hit out past 150 yds with pretty much every shot and very little hold over. I have several Rugers and they are fine out to almost 100, after that range estimation gets a little hard on my old eyes and necessary to make consistent hits. BTW $300 for a 10/22 isn't bad since the carbines are almost $200 with the wonderful factory trigger( now plastic) and loose chamber. You could part that out and be ahead of the game.
Paul

Shaman
04-02-2009, 09:27 AM
And it's a converted 10/22. With Hornady ammo I get 3/4" to 7/8" at 100 with no wind. Mine is by no means a tack driver and my 2 HMR's shoot better, but I like the ability to pull out a 10/22 and hit out past 150 yds with pretty much every shot and very little hold over. I have several Rugers and they are fine out to almost 100, after that range estimation gets a little hard on my old eyes and necessary to make consistent hits. BTW $300 for a 10/22 isn't bad since the carbines are almost $200 with the wonderful factory trigger( now plastic) and loose chamber. You could part that out and be ahead of the game.
Paul

Kid, what is your conversion?

DDgofer
04-02-2009, 09:32 AM
Yes that's correct the HM2's are not accurate

http://www.fototime.com/C9159C1D1BFF5BD/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/D32ABDA79641F01/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/92DF4E4A72CF113/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/71B6059DBE7A1F6/standard.jpg

As you can see mine throws fliers...all 5 shot groups at 25 yards.

Worse at 50 yards

http://www.fototime.com/E31E4DC0681ACEE/standard.jpg

Big disappointment after spending money on a Martini 1215 and going to the time and trouble of installing a 17 caliber liner. Good thing I am a Gunsmith and saved that cost. Saracasm fully intended.

gonzo gunner
04-02-2009, 10:34 AM
at 25 yards a accurate rifle would have put them all in the same hole!! the groups from a acurate .22lr at 50 yards should have been under 1/2 inch. a accurate .22lr would have been 1/4 inch or less. heck my savage .22lr will produce single hole 25 yard groups with sk match and 1/4 inch 50 yard groups with the same ammo. the hm2 isn't really that accurate. i believe the .17 caliber bullet lends itself to the faster speed of the hmr and centerfires.

Markbo
04-02-2009, 10:59 AM
Well my picture hosting site has gone down, but I have a pic of a group my converted 10/22 shot at 50yds that is one round hole, about the size of the dime next to it. 10 shots.

The HM2 can be extremely accurate when set up correctly and working to find the load it likes best.

Scott
04-02-2009, 02:34 PM
I vote for the 10-22 conversion. Mine is a barrel and bolt conversion from E. A.B.C.O. The barrel fits the standard sporter stock and was very simple to convert. It's no benchrest rifle but the accuracy is good enough to head shoot squirrels out to about 75 yds. If ammo ever gets scarce you can always convert back to 22LR.

eggman
04-02-2009, 04:48 PM
I would have to agree with Markbo. My CZ Hm2 sporter shoots bugholes and I have not seen the accuracy with both of the HMR's that I have owned. I have run into different lots of ammo that would produce fliers but just like the HMR just find what it likes.

Rodney

DDgofer
04-02-2009, 04:54 PM
at 25 yards a accurate rifle would have put them all in the same hole!! the groups from a acurate .22lr at 50 yards should have been under 1/2 inch. a accurate .22lr would have been 1/4 inch or less. heck my savage .22lr will produce single hole 25 yard groups with sk match and 1/4 inch 50 yard groups with the same ammo. the hm2 isn't really that accurate. i believe the .17 caliber bullet lends itself to the faster speed of the hmr and centerfires.


Sorry Gonzo, I misunderstood, I thought you were saying the 17HM2 wasn't accurate...maybe it's because there is no match ammo for it.

T.Zimm
04-02-2009, 07:55 PM
You might check out the Marlin 917V's. I have a matched set in both .17HMR and HM2. Both are very accurate and they are significantly cheaper than a CZ. Plus you can tweak the trigger with a Pentel mechanical pencil spring!:D Something to consider.......

Shaman
04-02-2009, 10:18 PM
Really been thinking about the Marlin, but the convertability of the Quad is keeping it up high on my list. The non protruding magazine of the 77/22 and the simplicity of parts to go magnum keeps it up there too. Just got to think about semi vs bolt and accuracy.

kid
04-03-2009, 01:11 AM
New bolt handle and a E.R. Shaw barrel. Went together well and I've had no jams, split cases, or other trouble except an occasional "click". ( I swear I didn't shoot ten already) All trigger group upgrades I did my self ( cause I'm cheap) and I've been extremely happy with the results. Stock is a Fajen Thumbhole Sporter with a pressure point near the end of the forearm, I've tried floating but it seems to me the receiver is too weak and flexes. I have four other 10/22's that are still 22LR. The Mach II is clearly superior in accuracy to all of them. Have I mentioned the effect it has on squirrels? There are no brains left for dumplins', or to scramble with your eggs. If you hit low you occasionally get decapitated tree rats.
If I skipped something please ask as I'm a little dense and can't always see the forest for the crosshairs.
Paul

Shaman
04-03-2009, 01:53 AM
How does the sporter work with the Fajen stock? How does it shoot on paper? What brand does it like the best?

gonzo gunner
04-03-2009, 05:48 AM
there is a reason gun makers have cut down on producing .17hm2 caliber rifles. if they where as great as people who like them seem to think they are the companies wouldn't be cutting back production of them. it's each to thier own, but mine pretty much draws dust. it's lack luster and under powered compaired to the hmr's(that isn't seeing production cut backs). this conversation has been had on many other forums. i always here of guns that shoot tiny bughole groups that people give $400-$500 for. i have match rifles and a few custom biult match rifles(centerfire and rimfire). every now and then you get a good small group. you are not talking to a fool who believes 10/22's in any form will always shoot tiny groups. i'm telling you it aint happening!!! pump all the money you want into those junkers. if you polish a turd all you have is a pretty piece of shit!!!!!

DDgofer
04-03-2009, 09:32 AM
Sales and Ruger killed the 17HM2 nothing more.

When you have two similair rounds, one standard and one Magnum, sales of magnum will always be higher.

If Ruger had been able to make the 17HM2 work in the 10-22, the 17HM2 would still be going strong.

I had intended to ream one of my 17HM2's to 17HMR. Simple enough to do inthe Martini, but I am having second thoughts seeing the cost of 17HMR's going up like they are. Hope it's just the Obama panic buying driving price up.

Gonzo, I agree with you when you say the 10-22 is no bughole gun. It can be made to shoot quite well but it will never shoot with the Anschutz or Martini's. My bog stock Remington 581 out shoots my hotrodded 10/22's every day.

Bottom line the 17HM2 round is accurate round.

Dwayne TX
04-03-2009, 10:09 AM
I disagree about the M2. When it first came out, the ammo was only a couple of dollars less than the HMR, if that. Very few were interested in paying basically the same amount for 'lesser' ammo. Now that the cost is 30% to 50% of HMR, the M2 looks more practical. I got a Contender carbine barrel for a song and it shoots pretty close to what my HMR carbine barrel does. I followed that barrel with a Marlin bolt action that was on clearance at Academy. Getting ammo for $3.49 to $3.79 a box makes them nice setups.

jim b
04-03-2009, 11:59 PM
CZ all the way. Great round, don't be afraid to get one.

Shaman
04-06-2009, 01:33 AM
I disagree about the M2. When it first came out, the ammo was only a couple of dollars less than the HMR, if that. Very few were interested in paying basically the same amount for 'lesser' ammo. Now that the cost is 30% to 50% of HMR, the M2 looks more practical. I got a Contender carbine barrel for a song and it shoots pretty close to what my HMR carbine barrel does. I followed that barrel with a Marlin bolt action that was on clearance at Academy. Getting ammo for $3.49 to $3.79 a box makes them nice setups.

us texans are thinking alike. If I want to go out farther than 150 alot, I'll pull out the 223. Seriously looking at the Quad, since there is talk of tactical solutions making barrels for them. trigger adjustable down to 8 oz as is sits.

elmerfudd
04-09-2009, 08:10 PM
When the 17 rimfire bug bit me I was affraid that this would be another5mm remington so I looked at what would be easier to convert I bought the ruger 77 22 in 17hrm and got a factory 22 mag barrel on the net. I think that the H2 will not be around long

Shaman
04-09-2009, 09:52 PM
When the 17 rimfire bug bit me I was affraid that this would be another5mm remington so I looked at what would be easier to convert I bought the ruger 77 22 in 17hrm and got a factory 22 mag barrel on the net. I think that the H2 will not be around long

Seems that with the 17hm2, it could easily be reamed out to hmr, as the ROT is the same, according to the CZ website, and the 22LR could also be reamed to WMR as the ROT are the same. I think though that the bores are .002 different maybe? On a Sako Quad or a 77/22 the conversion should be easy going from standard to magnum

kid
04-09-2009, 09:55 PM
the mach 2 is close to 20% less than a HMR. I will never claim it to be more powerful, but I get good accuracy from my 10/22. Even a $1000 Ruger won't match an Anschutz, but for trying to anchor a running jack you sometimes need a follow up shot or two. My Savage HMR knocks jacks off their feet out to about 130 yds, my Mach 2 tips them over only with head shots at that distance.
Now will the Mach 2 last? I can't say, but I waited almost 10 years from the first mention I heard for a 17 Magnum til I heard Hornady would actually make one. To me Mach 2's make more sense in pistols since they seem to have reliability worked out better there( for semi-auto's), but once again, MY RUGER has no problems, at least it hasn't with the first 1000 rounds. I also have a 6MM Rem, 225 Win, and 357 Max that are pretty near impossible to find over the counter ammo for so I have a knack for investing in the obsolete category.
Good luck in whatever you choose.
Paul

Shaman
04-09-2009, 10:22 PM
Wanted to pulll out some numbers. Let's say that the hm2 is 80% of what the HMR is. hm2 is also 37.5% of the price of the HMR (just taken from gun-deals.com). Seems like a more cost efficient round to me. Drop looks to be identical out to 125 yards. With an accurate gun, I would argue that energy can be a moot point as long as it will bash skulls.

kid
04-10-2009, 12:36 AM
Compare the numbers and decide. One good thing about the Mach2 is your groups don't fall apart with high velocity, like Stingers or the Aguilla Super Maximum do. Or just do what I do. Buy, Buy, Buy!!! Then weed out what doesn't perform to your standards. The drawback is it takes alot of shooting to accurately assess a firearm. BTW you can no more compare Mach 2's and HMR's than you can .22LR's and .22 Magnum's. The argument should be Mach 2 versus .22LR.
This forum is full of contradictory viewpoints but with few exceptions the depth of intellect is amazing.
Paul

Shaman
04-10-2009, 12:44 AM
The argument should be Mach 2 versus .22LR.
Paul
17hm2 has already won. Dad should be picking up the convert 10/17, and I am going to be buying 500 rounds of Remington this weekend hopefully. If the round dies, I plan on having enough ammo to shoot it far after I can find an extra 22 barrel. The Sako Quad is still on the table. Trying to decide if I want to buy it or a good air rifle.

elmerfudd
04-10-2009, 02:49 PM
On my 7722, I have swapped the barrels out between the 17 and the22 mrf- there were no problems with the swap just pulled the 17 bbl and installed the 22 mag checked headspace worked geat no problems these were both fact bbls and both use the 22 mag length mag .this would probably work with the 22lr if you swapped the trigger plate so you could use the longer mag -barrel removal is same as 1022 just remove barrel clamp take the barrel out and exchange them i checked the 7722 22lr and except for the magazine length, the actions are identical. the trigger plate that holds the mag is shorter on the 17 action to accomadate the longer round-bolt face is same both bolts

C Miller
04-11-2009, 12:32 PM
Having owned a CZ and a 10/22 17m2 conversion I opted for a Anschutz 64 in 17M2. At one time they were blowing them out for 325.00 at CDNN, I picked mine up on GB for 345.00 shipped. Even though I like CZ's there was no comparison in fit, finish, and function compared to the Annie, and it cost the same. My other option would be the Sako Quad for 389.00 on GB right now, pick up a 22lr barrel later or a 17Hmr barrel and clip and you've got both 17 rimfires.

Markbo
04-11-2009, 01:14 PM
Well Shaman don't go buying up all of one round you can find until you know what your gun likes. Like all rimfires, the .17s are picky. Find the right round though and you might be amazed at the accuracy. My HM2 likes Eley. My HMR likes Remington.

All the talk about 'so and so makes all the ammo so it doesn't matter' is BS. I have tried every round I can find and make and lot DO matter... just like all my .22s. The good news is, once you find that magic load you can stock up as time/$$ permits. I purchase by the case so I have no worries if the next box is good or not.

The HM2 is not going anywhere. Not for a while. And if I even THINK it might, I will just stock up. FWIW I don't compare the HM2 to the HMR. I don't compare the .22LR to .22 WMR either. Totally different tools for different chores.

Shaman
04-11-2009, 07:32 PM
I only bought the stuff I did because it would be someting to test with. WHen I find a good price on Eley I will buy some too.

DDgofer
04-12-2009, 08:44 AM
FWIW I don't compare the HM2 to the HMR. I don't compare the .22LR to .22 WMR either. Totally different tools for different chores.

Excellent point!!!

scatterbrains
04-16-2009, 08:31 AM
I have converted my 10/22 to 17hm2, with a GM heavy sporter barrel and heavy bolt handle. It shoots very well, if you do a conversion buy a 50rnd count of every type of ammo you can find. I get split cases with cci, case head seperations with remington and eley, but the hornadys are cats ass perfect and very accurate. conversion cost me maybe 150bucks. already had the gun. Only thing i can tell you from my experiance is to get a GOOD rod, LOL. and have fun.

Shaman
04-16-2009, 09:13 AM
By rod I assume you mean cleaning rod?

scatterbrains
04-16-2009, 09:56 AM
yes cleaning rod, i gotn a cheesy one first and snapped it LOL:rolleyes:

Shaman
04-16-2009, 06:06 PM
yes cleaning rod, i gotn a cheesy one first and snapped it LOL:rolleyes:

A cheesy joke or cleaning rod?

William D Mansfield
04-16-2009, 09:47 PM
Hello Shaman,
I can tell you from my experience with ammo that the Hornady's have performed very well,I have my best killing power with these.I have a 93R Savage HMR which I love,it's a real tack driver.Your choice of gun should be fine as long as you are not shooting out to far.With the Hornady 20 grain XTP ammo I get the best Penatration with great expansion ,just try different ammo and you should do fine.Remember if you feel comfortable and have confidence with your gun,and practice you will find that you will have a tendency to shoot better.You don't always need a top dollar gun to shoot well,last year I bought a savage mark2 at walmart for around a $129,everyone told me that it wouldn't shoot worth a hoot that it was cheap and I probally wouldn't get good groups with it.Well I love this gun and it shoots less than quater inch groups at 50 yards with federal bulk ammo off my bipod.All the guys at the gun club can;t believe it I have had people offer to buy this gun from me once they have seen what it will do.I also only have a cheap tasco 3x9 scope which does just fine on her,Remember most guns are accurate it's there owners who are not and blame the gun or the ammo or the wind.Good luck to you.