Long Gun Sales to California Residents [Archive] - Varmints Den

: Long Gun Sales to California Residents


Randy Shelton
09-04-2009, 08:02 PM
Fellow members,

It seems that many firearms sellers have problems selling to California residents. It is unfortunate that false information has been spread online regarding this subject. Many online auctions contain the phrase “No sales to California” or “Free shipping to the lower 47”. The same is true of many forum sellers.

When selling a LONG GUN to a California resident it is not a big deal as some have been led to believe. According to federal law, if a private party in another state wishes to sell to an individual in California he does not need to have a FFL holder on his end. Simply get a copy of the buyer's FFL, and the buyer’s personal information; then ship the gun by whatever means you choose. Unfortunately some California FFL holders have been misled to believe that a gun must be shipped from an FFL, this is just not true. If an FFL dealer ships the item to an FFL in California he must first obtain an authorization number from California Department of Justice. This procedure is free and takes only minutes online and is available 24/7. The California DOJ can be reached online, http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/, or by phone for further clarification.

When it comes to shipping here are a few suggestions. You can not pack the item good enough. Shippers are rough on packages. Double boxes, proper tape and labels are a must. UPS Stores or UPS drivers will not take firearms as a rule however, USP Customer Service Centers will. The safest and fastest way from my experience is to ship by the USPS Express Mail. Your item is under lock and key and is signed for every time it changes hands. This service is a bit more costly but delivery is fast, can be insured and tracked. I do not have experience with FedEx but have read good reviews of their service shipping firearms.

It is not my intent to discuss the sales of hand guns, or sales between two California residents, nor do I wish to discuss the current political atmosphere in this state. Hopefully one seller will see the light and one potential buyer will not be excluded from a purchase.

Respectfully,

Randy Shelton

Oleman
09-04-2009, 08:12 PM
Randy you sure it's that easy. I have friends that are FFL's and they won't even do a deal on any kind of gun coming or going to California.

L Cazador
09-04-2009, 09:59 PM
My experience , is no it is not that easy . The DOJ is the problem , and most dealers are not willing to take the extra time in the process . That is why the " No CA sales " . If we let things continue to happen like what has taken place in CA , we'll soon have it accross the nation ! Thanks for bringing this to light Randy .

Mike in Fresno
09-05-2009, 12:56 PM
Randy are you a dealer? Have you done this?

PatR
09-05-2009, 03:03 PM
dealers in California willing to accept shipments from Non-FFL? I have had this issue and it ended the sale. I was more than willing to ship but the buyers FFL would not accept from a private party.

Randy Shelton
09-06-2009, 10:02 AM
Gentlemen,

Yes it is just that easy. Your comments are appreciated.

Oleman: You said "I have friends that are FFL's and they won't even do a deal on any kind of gun coming or going to California."

It is unfortunate that your friends are misinformed and are not willing to spend a few minutes to comply therefore excluding a potential buyer. Paragraph 2 above says it all.

L Cazador: You are correct in saying that most dealers don't want to take the time. Time is money and all they need to do is charge for their time to process the sale. What would 3 minutes of a man's time cost? I would be willing to pay.

Mike in Fresno: I am not a dealer. I have however talked to the DOJ at length regarding this subject and have completed several legal transactions through my FFL in California. It is more difficult for you and I to transfer a firearm because we both live in California. We would both need to physically go to the same FFL to do the DROS paperwork then one of us would have to go back in 10 days to get the item. We can't ship (PP to FFL) within the state. What a crock, huh!

PatR: It is unfortunate that your deal went bad due to a FFL that didn't know the law or was unwilling to take a few minutes to comply. A simple call to the DOJ would have cleared the air.

Thanks for the comments. It seems that the problem is with the individual FFL holder, not the California Department of Justice Firearms Division. It is my sole purpose to help sellers and buyers alike. It is from personal experience that I have taken on this task. Again a call to the DOJ or a peek at their web site may help.

Randy Shelton
Pollock Pines, Ca.

El Dorado Rod and Gun Club
Sac Valley Shooting Center

Sniper
09-06-2009, 10:50 AM
Thanks Randy, And here are some Q&A about it too, NOTE #2, I have missed out on some nice weapons because of the misinformation!!: http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/cflcfaqs.php
Sniper

Bear57
09-10-2009, 04:24 PM
What Randy says is true. I am a private party and have sold rifles to folks in California. Because I am NOT an FFL holder (dealer) I do NOT have to go the Calif. DOJ route. I have successfully shipped rifles to FFL holders in California via UPS with NO problems. Good luck and good shooting....:)

Don M.
09-10-2009, 08:07 PM
Many FFL Dealers do not or will not accept a firearm from an out of state
individual becasue of the danger of receiving a stolen firearm. Should that
occur, then, to whom does he turn to for reinmbusement ? That is why
many FFL Dealers will only receive shipment of firearms from another FFL.
As stated, by doing so, the receiving & the shipping FFL's can both go to
the ATF Website & verify a current license & address. Then, if a problem
comes up both know exactly whom to look for & where. It is just safer for
everyone involved. I purchased a really nice rifle a few years back from a
shooter/hunter in California. The rifle was shipped FFL to FFL & the trade
& shipment went real smooth.

lamm1
09-10-2009, 08:47 PM
Well, here's the thing I see wrong with it- it's a matter of principle all the way around. Everything in this world must go thru the democratic process and the residents of California VOTED for it, you may not have known it was coming(that would be your own fault) or what it would include(shouldn't have let them get their foot in the door to begin with), but it wasn't forced upon you(which is how everybody presents the problem).

It's not the rest of the gun loving populus across the nation that did this to you- it's your elected officials, it was your neighbor, your friend at work, your boss, the taxi driver that took you to lunch and the kid that flipped the burger you ate, that voted to make shipping anything that goes BANG into California a ROYAL PIA. I'm not a dealer,but when I sell something I'm not gonna spend 3-4hrs. wading thru the list of CA approved guns and the rest of the legalese BS just to make sure I won't go to prison or have the ATF breathing down my neck and going thru my stuff for selling it. There are plenty of people in very gun friendly states that are willing to pay just as much, be just as thankful, and it's SIMPLE. Simplicity will win every time.

Maybe complaining to your state rep. or congressman will get you somewhere. Your probably not gonna find many simpathetic ears around here.

Randy Shelton
09-11-2009, 08:23 AM
"It is not my intent to discuss the sales of hand guns, or sales between two California residents, nor do I wish to discuss the current political atmosphere in this state. Hopefully one seller will see the light and one potential buyer will not be excluded from a purchase."

My point is that, for a PRIVATE PARTY, it is no different selling a long gun to a resident of California than it is selling one to someone in most other states.

A dealer has to go to the Cal DOJ web site and spend a few minutes making things legal. He is in business for profit and needs to be paid for his time. I have no problem with that. Bill for the time, but please don't exclude potential buyers from the sale.

OrneryCuss, For years I have seen sellers ask for a signed copy of my dealers license. He has no problem providing it. Thanks for your clarification. Your point is well taken.

Randy Shelton

lepcur
12-24-2009, 08:56 PM
I live in Ca. and have bought long guns from private partys from other states and they shipped to my choice of FFL holders with no problems. Mike

Doug Jacobsen
12-24-2009, 09:34 PM
I agree with lamm1 post. I see it as "here just jump a little bit more" and tomorrow we'll make you dance. I don't understand the point of a stolen firearm as being an issue as if I have paid for it up front and if it ends up at my FFL as stolen I would be out the money not the FFL. The FFL I do use to do transfers has since changed his policy from shipped from anybody to shipped from an FFL only. Sounds like you boys in Kalifornia have a problem I hope its not contagious. Doug

John in CA.
12-25-2009, 11:39 AM
I live in Ca. and have bought long guns from private partys from other states and they shipped to my choice of FFL holders with no problems. Mike

Same experience here. No problems. However, I have heard that some California FFL's are not willing to offer their signed license copy to facilitate an out of state sale because they want to make the sale to you themselves.
But that is another issue, and has nothing to do with the law being discussed here on long guns.

Taildrag15X
12-28-2009, 07:05 AM
The only problem comes from my FFL not wanting to due anything with anyone in California. I'm trying to get myself set for the upcoming F-Class Nationals in March and
here are some problems.

Problem #1 - Receiving firearms shipped to CA...I can't, not a resident, which is caused
by problem #2 and part of #3

Problem #2 - Unable to check firearms on flight from Canada to CA, as I can't
bring firearms into Canada from US, even if only to board a flight back
US.

Problem #3 - UPS WILL NOT allow a non FFL Dealer to ship a Firearm from the
Plattsburgh, NY Shipping/Sort Center, I have been over the ATF
Rules with the Center Manager, they will not budge. It's legal to
ship to yourself, but they will not let you ship if your not a Licensed
FFL Dealer. I have not been to FEDEX, still trying to figure out #1.


Any ideas on how a non resident of CA can get his firearms?

John in CA.
12-28-2009, 01:01 PM
The only problem comes from my FFL not wanting to due anything with anyone in California. I'm trying to get myself set for the upcoming F-Class Nationals in March and
here are some problems.

Problem #1 - Receiving firearms shipped to CA...I can't, not a resident, which is caused
by problem #2 and part of #3

Problem #2 - Unable to check firearms on flight from Canada to CA, as I can't
bring firearms into Canada from US, even if only to board a flight back
US.

Problem #3 - UPS WILL NOT allow a non FFL Dealer to ship a Firearm from the
Plattsburgh, NY Shipping/Sort Center, I have been over the ATF
Rules with the Center Manager, they will not budge. It's legal to
ship to yourself, but they will not let you ship if your not a Licensed
FFL Dealer. I have not been to FEDEX, still trying to figure out #1.


Any ideas on how a non resident of CA can get his firearms?

I would contact the organizers at Camp Perry. Or the group hosting your event. People come from all over the world to compete in California events, so there must be a way to get this done.

Or, you can peruse this list of regulations, or email the California State DOJ.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/dwc.pdf

Good luck on it, wish I could be more help.

Danny
12-28-2009, 08:52 PM
I'm a bit tired right now, so excuse me if I've misssed something, but I'll respond to one aspect of your postings.

If you are having troble with UPS, you will have to find the part within their "rules" (don't know what they call those, but the USPS calls them the "DMM") which says that they will ship a long gun without you being an FFL (which they can do, you've showed them the law), and which they will do if you can FORCE them to do it. Some centers require less force, some more, some none at all. Don't let the counter people dissuade you from doing it. You may have to work up the chain of command with the documentation from the BATFE AND UPS and FORCE them to do what their regulations say that they will provide as a service to you and what BATFE allows you to do legally.

I would suggest using the USPS as I've had less trouble with them, but you may also have to follow the above advice depending upon where you try to ship from. Oh, and don't listen to them when they tell you that you have to fill out this form (can't remember the exact number of the form now), but it states on the the form that it's for FFL Holders, which you or I are not.

Good Luck,

You might need a lot of it,

Danny

CDDoeden
12-29-2009, 04:52 PM
I'll jump on the soapbox with Lamm1 on this one. Its all based on principles. A lot of us (myself included) are a little picky on who we choose to do business with. Whether its based upon the additional effort required for paperwork, maybe we don't agree with the policies or the liberal agendas imposed, or maybe we just prefer to do business with the good ol' boys from the Midwest. Note I say from, not in. (It seems as though the Rural Midwest is being bought out by CA natives). Not to say there aren't a lot of good honest people in, or from, CA; but we often base our decisions on our own principles. We may not always have all of the information, but we do know that there are pains associated with the system and, rather than giving in to laws we don't agree with or trying to distinguish which hoop we need to jump through, its often best to avoid it all together.

We appreciate the educational post, but if you want to make a difference.... Contact your state reps. Take back your 2nd amendment.

Fuzz
12-29-2009, 11:09 PM
...We appreciate the educational post, but if you want to make a difference.... Contact your state reps. Take back your 2nd amendment.[/QUOTE]

You'd better speak / write Spanish too!

Sniper
12-31-2009, 10:31 AM
Sí, Gracias Amigo

...We appreciate the educational post, but if you want to make a difference.... Contact your state reps. Take back your 2nd amendment.

You'd better speak / write Spanish too![/QUOTE]

rfurman24
01-01-2010, 09:14 AM
I have to agree with the others on the principal of selling firearms to California residents. Heaven forbid Kansas ever gets this bad. Ronnie Barrett will not even sell to California and I agree with his stance. We are not to sell guns to criminals and the California Government fits. They are robbing citizens of the right to bear arms by making it as difficult as possible to purchase and or use them. The current California Government was voted in by the citizens of the state. I know there are a lot of great people in the state including people on this and many other forums I frequent but people are going to have to take a stance on keeping their rights and I am willing to do pretty much anything to keep mine. If my state did what California is doing I would move.