GSG-5, 15-22, or.....

[Sid Packard]

Decided my boy and I would really enjoy one of these little ammo burners, especially with the price of pistol ammo through the roof and the continuing primer shortage, but I'm having trouble choosing.

My brother called last night to rave the about the S&W 15-22, so I decided to drop by the local gun shop today. At the front door I was greeted by a sign that said "GSG-5 reduced to $399.99, While They Last", so that was a good start. I then checked out the Smith, and was REALLY impressed. I'd forgotten about Ruger's tactical adaption of the 10/22, but the "helpful" ;) youngster behind the counter said I should check it out, and I liked it too.

Here's my impressions:

The GSG-5 seems like a toy, albeit a really fun one.

The Smith felt just like an AR, which is good. I love the adjustable stock. I'm a little worried about them just having been released, because I don't like being anyone's beta tester. I'm not implying S&W would do that, but it's certainly not unheard of.

Ruger: I liked the feel of it, but it's currently at the bottom of the list.

Who out there is shooting these, and how do you like them?

Sid

[Bayou City Boy]

I own both a GSG-5 and a S&W MP-15 22LR....

I like both of them as they are both extremely reliable, accurate, and lots of fun to shoot. If I had to choose a personal favorite, I would probably choose the MP-15 simply because it feels like an AR-15 when shouldered. If you shoot AR's a bunch like I do, that's maybe a plus for the MP-15.

The MP-15 also has a good rail platform for using optical sights of various forms used on full size AR's. I have no plans to use either of my rifles with scopes, etc. as they are nothing but pure fun short range plinkers for me, and both are sufficiently accurate for my needs with the iron sights provided. But for some maybe that is a consideration. I have other scoped bolt and semi-auto 22LR rifles for playing accuracy games with, so it's not a concern for me...

But that statement is not meant to take anything away from the GSG-5. For an H&K shooter, it probably feels very much like the H&K 9MM MP-5. And the internet is full of information on how to do various conversions/modifications including scope mounting on the GSG-5. Before the Ar-15 22 LR clones started showing up, my GSG-5 was without a doubt my favorite 22 LR plinker. Now it has close competition... But I don't plan to get rid of either one...

Bottom line: I don't think you can go wrong with choosing either one... They are both extremely good quality carbines. Just be prepared to shoot lots of 22 LR ammo through which ever one you choose.

JMO - BCB

[kid]

but I heard that there was a legal issue with the GSG-5 not being a licensed copy. No more to be made, but the post said they would sale remaining inventory. I would assume if there was a violation of some sort it would end with a recall. I have a Colt/Walther AR and it seems on the exterior to be a dead copy of the AR. Weight and length are the same as the M4. I think the Smith uses a light weight receiver which may make it a little more packable.
All that said Ruger makes the Harley, 350 Chevy, 1911 of 22's. May not be the best but you can create what you want since everyone makes parts for it. I don't see a time when you can't get replacement parts for a 10/22 and I think you could make some sort of Tacti-Cool Ruger for less than the cost of either of the others. I am biased and presently own 7 10/22's in various states of customization.
Paul

[Doug Roberts]

I agree with kid but you know I am biased. I like all 9 (counting the Charger) of my 10/22s. They are in 4 different calibers, I might add. I can put you into one of those babies today for a minimal down payment and $399 a month for the rest of your life. Maybe less! Oops. Pretend I didn't say that. I think I may have just committed a crime in Illinois for thinking about selling you a gun.

You can make a 10/22 be just about anything you want it to be. All it takes is money and one screw driver. "Building" them is a lot of fun, too.

[Bayou City Boy]

Concerning the HK/ATI law suit, H&K sued ATI. ATI (American Tactical Imports - the company who imports the GSG-5) is a small company, and even though the law suit was probably frivolous due to the fact that the GSG-5 is in no way similar in function to an MP-5 other than in external appearance, ATI agreed to suspend importation instead of paying for a long legal fight in court in Indiana.

In addition to ATI, H&K sued 24 other companies like Air Soft over look-alike parts, etc. H&K wanted ATI and others out of the way because H&K too has plans to introduce a 22 LR MP-5 version that supposedly will sell in the $900 range... Not to me it won't.... That's just how a big company deals with competition from a smaller business in any realm of the economy. Most small companies simply can't afford to fight deep pockets.

As I mentioned above, the two parties have reached an agreement and ATI will cease importing the rifles from German Sports, Inc. However, ATI has publicly stated since the legal agreement was reached that they will continue to provide parts and service for the GSG-5. And in the words of a company rep for ATI, they have other things "up their sleeves", to borrow the phrase. Whatever that means....?

I looked at the Colt 22LR version of the M-4 when I bought my S&W, and IMO, the quality of the S&W is head and shoulders above the Colt. The Colt has a sloppy upper to lower receiver fit with no functioning bolt stop, and the S&W runs about $50 cheaper... In design and function, the S&W is much closer to a true AR even though the uppers and lowers of neither the Colt or the S&W MP-15 will interchange with a true AR. Some individual parts/pieces will interchange...

As for the 10-22 comparison, I like 10-22's, and I own several of them, including a few that are highly modified from the original. But in reality, for me they are all just simple pedestrian Ruger 10-22's in the end, some of which just happen to have more lipstick on them that others.... If you like the military look of the GSG-5 or the MP-15, either will provide you with a lot of entertainment. I never bought either of mine anticipating to shoot "small groups" with either of them.... They are not potential target rifles by design from the git-go...

And..... If you're offended by the pure military look of either rifle, some other option is probably better for you... But remember that Sarah Brady wants them all abolished, with no concern as to what they look like...

-BCB

[Sid Packard]

BCB: Have you shot any groups from the bench, just for curiosity's sake?

Doug: I'm sure the mere act of reading your "offer" would make me guilty of "conspiracy" in some circles. Thanks alot!

Sid

[Bayou City Boy]

Hi, Sid:

I haven't done any formal shoot and measure of groups, but when I sighted both rifles in at 25 yards off a bench, once sighted where I wanted them, they both shot about a half to one inch ragged portion of the target completely away.

At 50 yards, they were still cleaning a 1"+ portion of the target after 50 shots or so. Much better than minute of Coke can at 50 yards, but as I stated earlier, I have no plans to scope either rifle, so I'm kinda' guessing using the open sights..

About all I can definitely say is once I got used to a sight picture with each rifle, both rifles delivered the bullets right where I expected at both 25 and 50 yards. My guess is that with a scope that either rifle would easily shoot with any other scoped unaltered factory 22 rifle you might buy. Maybe better if scoped....

With the S&W, mounting a scope or other optical sight would be a simple process.

JMO - BCB

[10MMGary]

FWIW I went with a dedicated AR upper chambered in 22LR from Tactical Solutions. It has the proper twist rate (as does the GSG the S&W 22 AR and the Colt 22 AR)and all my other AR gear will fit it. The manual of Arms is the same for those with other AR s. I absolutely love it, with CCI Mini Mags it functions flawlessly and shoots really nice groups at 50 yards.

I looked at fondled both the Colt and S&W product and shot the S&W offering, I read enough bad about the Colt to eliminate it without shooting one. Additionally they both just felt like toys to me. In regards to the GSG I have heard and read nothing but good about them. Too bad they were sued, but I won't judge H&K until I have read both sides of the argument. If a dedicated 22LR AR upper is out of the question I would go with the GSG personally.

[Sid Packard]

I read up on the Tac-Sol .22 upper, and alot of people really like it. $600+ is a little rich for me, considering I can get a Smith, which I really like alot, for $470.

I'm still undecided between the GSG-5 and the 15-22, and might have to get both before I can decide which I prefer :D.

Sid

FWIW I went with a dedicated AR upper chambered in 22LR from Tactical Solutions. It has the proper twist rate (as does the GSG the S&W 22 AR and the Colt 22 AR)and all my other AR gear will fit it. The manual of Arms is the same for those with other AR s. I absolutely love it, with CCI Mini Mags it functions flawlessly and shoots really nice groups at 50 yards.

I looked at fondled both the Colt and S&W product and shot the S&W offering, I read enough bad about the Colt to eliminate it without shooting one. Additionally they both just felt like toys to me. In regards to the GSG I have heard and read nothing but good about them. Too bad they were sued, but I won't judge H&K until I have read both sides of the argument. If a dedicated 22LR AR upper is out of the question I would go with the GSG personally.