225 Winchester [Archive] - Varmints Den

: 225 Winchester


HEAD0001
05-02-2010, 01:44 AM
Anyone shooting the 225 Winchester?? How does the rim compare to the rim on a 30-30?? Tom.

kim
05-02-2010, 12:57 PM
I had one for years, until it was stolen. I'm not sure what you're asking. The rim on the .225 is .473, same as the 30-06 family, but without looking, I'm not sure what the .30-30 is.


Molon Labe

Kim

Hairtrigger
05-02-2010, 01:13 PM
I have two 225 Winchesters but no 30-30 to compare also

219DW
05-02-2010, 01:42 PM
Tom,
The rim on the R-P 30-30 cases that I used for my .204 Wasp are .499 to .500 dia and .057 thick.
Dave

HEAD0001
05-02-2010, 05:16 PM
Both the 225 and the 30-30 are rimmed cartridges. However the rim on the 30-30 is a bit larger and more pronounced. I know the 30-30 head spaces off the rim. I was trying to determine if the rim on the 225 was large enough to head space off of?? And does the 225 Winchester case normally headspace off the rim?? I have not held a 225 case, so I was just trying to determine how pronounced the rim was?? It is a fairly high pressure round. I am considering one for an Encore barrel. And I want a cartridge that headspaces on the rim. Tom.

TinMan
05-02-2010, 07:43 PM
The 225 Winchester is a semi-rimmed cartidge like the 220 Swift, if I remember correctly. In fact, it might be the same as the Swift, since Winchester intended it to replace the Swift. The Swift rim is .473 Diameter, but it is a bit thicker than the 308/30-06/45ACP rim, and the OD of the rim is not a straight cylinder like the 30-06, but it is beveled. I had to buy a shell holder for the Swift, the standard 30-06/308/45ACP holder would not work.

HEAD0001
05-02-2010, 07:58 PM
Sorry for the ignorance but I have no idea what a semi-rim is?? Either it is a rimmed cartridge, and head spaces off the rim, or it doesn't?? I do not understand the term semi-rimmed?? Tom.

HEAD0001
05-02-2010, 08:00 PM
Tom,
The rim on the R-P 30-30 cases that I used for my .204 Wasp are .499 to .500 dia and .057 thick.
Dave

Are you shooting that in an Encore?? Tom.

Neil
05-02-2010, 08:29 PM
Why would you want to headspace on the rim?

TinMan
05-02-2010, 09:39 PM
We are dealing with the idiocyncracies of gun terminology and definitions. A "semi-rimmed" cartridge has a rim that sticks out beyond the body of the cartridge, but it is smaller in diameter than a true "rimmed" cartridge like a 30-30 or a 45 Colt. A "rimless" cartridge is like a 30-06 or 45ACP, where there is an extractor groove, and the case rim is roughly the same OD as the case directly above the rim. The rimless cases are typically beveled on the bottom of the head. See the link for the 225 Winchester sketch. If you have some reloading manuals handy, such things are usually explained fairly well in the beginning pages before the actual load data.

http://www.stevespages.com/jpg/cd225winchester.jpg

HEAD0001
05-02-2010, 10:00 PM
I see what you mean. And I do realize the rim is not as large as say the 30-30. But does the cartridge still headspace off the rim(225 Winchester)?? I do believe it does. Just looking for some additional opinions. Tom.

219DW
05-02-2010, 11:43 PM
Tom,
My .204 Wasp is a Ruger #1 that had been a .225 WW for the last 15 years before I had it rebarreled last year. I have several TC barrels that shoot rimmed cases and they all headspace off the shoulder. When I form brass for one of my rimmed wildcats I set the shoulder just as if it was a rimless case. A possible exception would be the .22 Hornet. When shooting new brass the long tapered shoulder wouldn't contact the chamber, so the rim would have to stop forward movement.
The .225 is a fine varmint cal. Case holds about 35 grains of a stick powder like Varget. I shot mine about 4000 times at PD's, mostly 50gr ballistic tips at about 3650 fps out of the 24" barrel.
Dave

HEAD0001
05-03-2010, 12:16 AM
How do you headspace a rimmed cartridge on the shoulder?? Do you have your rim stick out of the back of the barrel?? I was under the impression that head spacing off the rim is what made the rimmed cartridges the cartridge of choice for an Encore??

Normally for my non-rimmed cartridges in my Encores I like to bump the shoulder back .002 to .003 off the chamber?? Is that what you are doing?? If so then the rim would be in contact with the barrel??

Sorry to ask so many questions, but I do not understand how you are doing that?? Please do not misconstrue my comments as being rude. I am really trying to figure this out. And head spacing off the shoulder on a rimmed cartridge goes against everything I have been reading?? Tom.

Dave S
05-03-2010, 11:41 AM
The .30-30 rim diameter is .506 and the .225 Winchester is .473, so them .30-30 is larger. The .225 is the same rim diameter as the .22-250..

Hope this answers your question..

Dave

Dave S
05-03-2010, 11:44 AM
The .30-30 rim diameter is .506 and the .225 Winchester is .473, so them .30-30 is larger. The .225 is the same rim diameter as the .22-250.. According to the Hornady Manual, the .225 headspaces on the shoulder and the headspace length is 1.330"

Hope this answers your question..

Dave

219DW
05-04-2010, 12:28 AM
Tom,
I'll try to answer your questions.
You headspace a rimmed case just like you do a rimless. The exception would be a lever action like a Win. 94 30-30. I think they headspace off the rim.
The rim is in the rim clearance that the reamer cuts. The rim clearance in a TC barrel and other single shots is usually cut a few thousandths deeper than the rim thickness. The head of the case is against the TC frame just like rimless case would be.
One reason rimmed cases are popular for Contenders and Encores is that the extractor doesn't have to be spring loaded against the case like it does for a rimless case. My .30 Herrett and 6.5 Bullberry Imp. cases fall out after fireing where the 7 TCU cases have to be pulled out because the extractor is spring loaded into the ectractor groove.
Some of my cases I can get by with neck sizeing only for several fireings. My .222 Rimmed gets full length every time. I bump the shoulder .001 to .002 just enough to let the action close easily.
In a single shot, think of the rim cut for what it is, clearance for the rim. It could be 1/16" larger dia. and 1/16" deeper and wouldn't effect the headspaceing of the case because its just clearance. For example, my .219 Wasp Ruger #3 that I had built in 1994. The reamer the gunsmith had was for the short version, so I had him run it in .063 deeper to make mine the long version. That made the rim clearance .126 deep and the rims are only .057 thick. No problem, when I formed the brass I set the full length die to where the block would close with a little resistance. The shoulder is in contact with the chamber and the head is against the block, the front of the rim isn't touching anything. Fireform and then necksize or bump the shoulder with the full length die.
Another reason for useing rimmed cases in single shots is that some of us just think they look good.
Dave

HEAD0001
05-04-2010, 12:42 AM
So in other words when the gunsmith cuts the chamber he cuts the rim recess a bit deeper so that the case will headspace on the shoulder?? That makes sense. And then the beauty of the rim is more for extraction instead of being used to headspace on?? I can see that.

So then the proper way to size a rimmed case for the Encore would be to measure the chamber(to the shoulder). then add on the gap between the action and the barrel, then subtract .002(to allow the shoulder to be just short of the chamber??) for bumping back the shoulder on a fired case??

Please bear with me I am wanting to fully understand. And I thought the reason why rimmed cartridges were preferred in an Encore was so that the case could be head spaced on the rim. Thanks, Tom.

219DW
05-04-2010, 01:49 AM
Tom,
Rather than trying to measure chamber length and adding gap, I set my dies by gradually adjusting die down till the action closes with slight resistance.

To clear things up a little more, I'm talking about cases with a fairly substantial shoulder, like the .225 WW, .219 Wasp, any of the Ackley improved cases. Of course any straight wall like .357 Mag, .44 Mag, .375WW would headspace on rim. Cases with long slopeing shoulders like 30-30, 25-35, .219 Zipper factory loads or new brass would headspace on rim because the new brass is smaller than the chamber and the rim would stop the case from going any deeper into the barrel before the shoulder would touch the chamber.
Dave