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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Would like to use this or the 20VT but dont want to mess with reforming cases.
Why not just neck down the 221 fireball? Is there a good reason the case has to be reformed? Do you realy gain anything?
 

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Would like to use this or the 20VT but dont want to mess with reforming cases.
Why not just neck down the 221 fireball? Is there a good reason the case has to be reformed? Do you realy gain anything?
Well...You could always buy 17 Fireball factory ammo and skip the case froming entirely - soon as it is available, of course.

I have the dies, CJ. If you want to borrow 'em, let me know. It is VERY easy to do, using 221 Fireball brass. They DO need to be annealed after forming, but that would probably be the situation, regardless of what case was necked down to 17 cal, so don't hold that against the little Mach IV.:rolleyes:



Left to right: 220 Swift, .223 Rem, 17 Mach IV.

P.
 

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CJ, looks like it's your choice. The 17MKIV will take a little more work the first time through, but it appears that either Paul or I can loan you the form dies, that is if you don't have them already.

The 20VT has a 30° shoulder, but you can make the cases with a pass through a full length die, so it's simpler. Kindler claims 3600-3750 for velocity, which is a little slower than the 17, but not much.

If you want the articles with load info from Kindler's book, shoot me an email.

Rick
 

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Would like to use this or the 20VT but dont want to mess with reforming cases.
Why not just neck down the 221 fireball? Is there a good reason the case has to be reformed? Do you realy gain anything?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "reforming cases" and is there a "good reason" for doing it. Obviously it takes something to make a .221 case into .20 or .17. Until .17Fireball brass is available, it's gonna be up to the individual. So with either cartridge you'll have to reform cases by necking them down. The "good reason" is that there's no choice. But it's not difficult. If by "reforming cases" you mean fireform, that's nothing. I fireformed literally a couple thousand rounds of .17MIV on varmints and was never even aware they were fireforming loads.....it was all used in the field shooting stuff.

About really gaining anything?.....that's up for conjecture. The MIV has no recoil and not too much noise and is lots of fun to shoot. On small things out to about 250 or 300 it'll pretty much do everything the .223 will do. It doesn't use much powder and it's only a 25gr bullet. I don't shoot a .20. My .221 load is a 40gr. bullet doing about 3450, but other people are shooting the same bullet at 3600 or more. That kinda makes me wonder why go to .20 cal. with the same case and shoot an 8gr. lighter bullet with less punch at about the same speed?
 

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Hiya CJ

I love my Mach IV but I think the 20 caliber is the way to go for prairie dogs. You get the same benefits of the Mach IV.....can see all your hits through the scope....but on the receiving end, you get more spectacular displays. This round doesn't seem affected by wind as much as my Mach IV. My Mach IV is still my favorite rifle and I just made more brass for it, but I will always pack a couple of 204s along on thr trip. -Cliff-
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Prairie dog getter!!

Thanks for the real world review Cliff...Just what I had in mind a light walkabout gun that is on the mild side.As luck would have it I got a 20cal barrel waiting for whatever I come up with.I already have a 204 and 223s but wanted something to help keep the brass seperate.The 20VT sounds like I can just neck down and fireform=K.I.S.S I like that!!
 

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CJ,
If all you're doing is keeping it simple, I have another suggestion. The Tac 20 needs only a full length die, no form dies necessary. matter of fact, I wrinkled more cases with the form die than I did just using the full length. You can use the 204 as your seater die and I'm sure but what you could expend the 223 case with the 204 die as well. One the case is formed, I'm almost sure you can neck size with the 204. I've been using a set of 223 AI dies to load 223AI, 222 Rem mag AI and 5.6x50AI for years. The only problem I've ever had is sizing the web now and then. I had a 357Mag die reamed for that and it solved the problem.

Like you needed more options...right?:rolleyes:

So, what action are you using for this?

Rick
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
K.I.S.S. is sometimes relevant

Kinda looking to stay away from the 223 case as I have enough problems now keeping the brass separate(2-223s an AI and the 204).Ya I know I could put it in different colored boxes but danged if I can remember what color is what most of the time.
OK the truth is I don't have a 221 fireball or one of its derivatives and am feeling left out.The little 527CZ is just begging to be chambered to a cute little round
 

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Ahhh, while I don't think keeping the cases separate would be a problem, I can understand the "need" to make something on the Furball case. The 527 should do very well, that's what I have my MkIV on. Lemme know if I can help with anything.

Rick
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Good point on the 20 vrs 22 fireball! If I could have found a 221 CZ I would surely have ben $ ahead,possession of a 20 cal barrel is just cause in this case to try the 20VT.If I was patient enough(and I ain't) to wait a season CZ will no doubt be chambering the 17 fireball but it will not be this year!
Paul and Rick solved the forming issue with the MkIV by offering the forming die but at this point I don't have a 17cal barrel so that round will have to wait fer now.
Too much time on my hands and cabin fever have me what iffing a lot these days,thanks for bouncing back ideas!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The 17MKIV bug is Lee's fault,that little TC of his sure is a nice handy, quiet,flat shootin unit.More probable though I'll build the 20VT on the barrel I have and wait till next year to do a 17?
Thanks for the info on the 17MkIV case as that is kinda what I was after. Just curios as to why the 221 case was not just necked down=leaving a false shoulder and fireformed?Why are the other dies needed?
 

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Just DO IT

CJ,
You NEED a fireball-based small cal for PD. My 17M4 is by far may favorite PD gun, takes a long time for it to heat up and no recoil to speak of. From the real life reports, the 20 VT is everything the 17M4 is with more poop out in the pasture...yeah, I want one. I've even thought about sacrificing my
204R.
 
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