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My brother wants me to load him some 165 spitzers for his .30-06, but reduce the velocity and recoil down to about .30-30 levels. He'll be using these for medium-size whitetails at very close range, in the thick stuff. He's savvy enough that if a deer is much over 100 yards, he won't use this load.

I did a search here and found one helpful thread. Of the powders I have on hand, it looks like IMR 4895 might work best. I have a chronograph but don't have time to develop this load as I normally would. So, ideally I'd like to find someone who has played around with .30-06 reduced loads using IMR 4895. I'm aware of the Hodgdon website which says I can take the max 4895 load for any bullet, multiply by 0.6 (60%) and I can safely load 4895 using that as my starting load.

If you have experience downloading .30-06 with a 165 jacketed bullet, I'd love to hear what you've learned. Thanks in advance.
 

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I load a lot of reduced loads in 3006. I've used the same load for a variety of bullets including the 165s. The load of powder is 19.0 grs SR4759. It's about an 80% loading density and SR4759 will not go thru a powder measure. It's very bulky. I use a Lee Dipper to put it on the scale. Recoil is much less than a 3030 but velocity is close to 3030. I use it primarily to train Boy Scouts how to shoot the big guns. Brings a smile to kids face when he doesn't get knocked to his knees and can shoot the big-uns. I would suggest though to back up to a 150gr 3030 round nose bullet. The 165 is far too heavy on the jacket and there will be zero expansion. A 3030 Remington Core Lok is what I use mostly and it expands near picture perfect at 100 yds. The load is good to about 150 yds. After that it falls off pretty quick. Accuracy out of an arm load of 3006s is less than an inch at 100 yds. Use a 300 yd sight in puts it on the money at 100 yds. Primers don't seems to make any difference but I use Winchester large rifle primers. A max load of SR4759 is 31.0 grs under a 150gr bullet. How they manage to get that much in a case I have no idea. I can't get but about 26.0 grs in a case and that's using a drop tube. Like I say, it's very bulky which makes it ideal for reduced loads- no powder positioning issues. Burn rate is close to IMR4227.
I will caution you about loading any reduced load. Brass life is shorter than you think. The issue is the firing pin will hammer the case at the datum line/shoulder and considering there is no case expansion, the datum line gets shorter with every firing. Eventually the case will blow at the head, kinda like excessive headspace but it's in the brass, not the gun. I limit my firing of reduced loads to 5 times and then I trash it. So don't use new brass unless money is not an issue.
 

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I will caution you about loading any reduced load. Brass life is shorter than you think. The issue is the firing pin will hammer the case at the datum line/shoulder and considering there is no case expansion, the datum line gets shorter with every firing. Eventually the case will blow at the head, kinda like excessive headspace but it's in the brass, not the gun. I limit my firing of reduced loads to 5 times and then I trash it. So don't use new brass unless money is not an issue.
That would become an issue if you were using the same brass in several different guns. If you were to only load for one rifle fire a full power load than only neck size from there on out, lower pressure rounds aren't going to need to be full length sized for a long time. I have 30-06 brass that was fired in my Remington 700 with a full power load after which I neck size and drill out the flash hole slightly. I have at least 10 loadings on it with a 250gr bullet going 950fps and no issues.
 

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For all the mucking around with trying to shoot a reduced load in the venerable 30/06 I think it'd be easier to buy a 30/30 and load it up with 150gn pills to shoot deer at the 100yd mark as that's what he seems to be shooting at and leave the 30/06 and 165gn loads for bigger game.

Can't see much sense in back loading a bigger calibre to a smaller calibre's performance with a chance of possibly blowing the rifle up.................just my thoughts and besides a man can't have enough toys anyway.:D
 

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According to my QuickLoad, using the 165-gr Nosler Accubond, using the program's default case capacity and seating depth, an 85% fill is 46.7 grains. Nosler shows the minimum load at 48.5 grains.

When I use a 22" bbl, at 85% case fill, the predicted MV is only 200 fps and 370 fpe lower than for Nosler's factory load with that same bullet. But the ME is still 2600 fpe, which is a pretty good thump, 400 fpe more than a good stout .30-30 load. From my point of view, with that powder and bullet, a "reduced" load doesn't get very reduced before you start tempting fate with SEE.

Looking at other powders with the same bullet, I noticed 100% case filles of both W780 and RL-19 are nearer to 2400 fpe but still running upper-middle 2500s MV. Other powders that will get you about the same performance at 95-100% case fill are Ramshot Hunter, Accurate 4350 and Norma 204. W760 and H414 give about the same performance at 92% case fill.

But this is hypothetical, based on QuickLoad's default (fireformed) case capacity (68.2 grains of water) and shank seating depth (0.359"). Plus the predicted PMax is only about 45000 psi, which might not be enough to cause complete obturation, so I'd be surprised if there wasn't quite a bit of blow-by. So you could go to even a slower-burning powder, but the blow-by would just get worse.

I thought to run the numbers on Larry L's SR4759 for comparison, but unfortunately, that powder isn't in my QuickLoad's database.
 

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SR4759 here as well. The Speer books carry reduced loads in many cartridges using this powder. It works well as Larry said.
 

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KF! Be careful there! Those 60% reduced loads are with H4895, not IMR 4895!!! https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Hodgdon H4895 reduced rifle load.pdf

SR 4759 is another one to try for sure looks like Larry has a winner there. The older Speer manuals do carry data for these in many calibers as stated above.

Not sure why folks fear reduced load with pressure tested data?? Most gun explosions with reduced loads are with lower density powders on reduced loads and non-pressure-tested data......like the vaunted Bluedot loads which Alliant/Hercules has never published, recommended or pressure-tested.
 

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4759 is a great powder. I haven't used it for the '06 but I used it in my Contender for 7 TCU and 7 mm Intl. Rimmed cases, and for my gun-shy nephew's .30-30. I don't think you could get enough powder in a case to hurt yourself. Lots of data out there for it too, so you won't be treading into uncharted waters.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks to all. This is exactly the kind of been-there-done-that advice I was hoping to get here. Looks like 4759 is the way I should go with this.

I'll give a current example of why I appreciate advice I get here on GoGo: Maybe 12-15 years ago I decided I wanted to try out my .243 for whitetails. I got on here and asked for a bullet recommendation. Out of maybe eight guys who responded, at least six of them recommended exactly the same 85 grain Sierra HP. Several of them had used it for years and some of these are guys I've shot with at Top Gun and the Balloon Bust. Anyway, I've used that bullet for years now and it's stellar. I've put five on the ground in the first eight days of our rifle season this year and the only one that ran made it just 35 yards before piling up. Just one example why this is the greatest place on the Internet for shooting and hunting tips.

Thanks again, guys.
 
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