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Discussion Starter #1
Shoot, after trying everything that I know and have learned on the board from other folks in the past. I've tried every primer, powder and bullet combo that I can possibly try in a Win. case. The best the gun will shoot, is at best 1 1/2 - 2 in groups. I've had it beded in 2 different stocks, have had the barrel re-crowned, but still no difference in the size of groups (more like patterns). The one last thing I'm thinking of trying, is Tubb's Final Finish. At this point, the only thing I have to loose is a barrel that won't shoot. The gun in question is a Rem. 700 ADL. If Tubb's Final Finish doesn't work, it time to re-barrel it.

Bob
 

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I have fixed a couple

of factory barrels with final finish, cheap to try and sometimes it's surprising.:D

Good Luck

Rick
 

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You don't mention how badly the bbl coppers. If it isn't, not sure why the final finish would help. But not having anything to offer in its place, why not? Any chance at all the action is in a bind? Wouldn't think so with the two diff stocks and bedding.

I guess, as you have stated, that you've tried all sorts of powder combos, butttttttt, whatabout really pushing them? But not in or past pressure signs. Yeah, I am grasping at straws too. Hope someone else has an idea.
 

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If you've tried every bullet around, it might be worth looking at the Hornady SPSX 50 grainer again. For slower twist barrels, it's the berries.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
No, I don't think it coppered up too badly, but then again I seldom shot over twenty rounds per session. I'd usually use a rem. case loaded with 45 gr. Hornet bullets for fouling shots, before I'd shoot the twenty rounds of whichever combo I wanted to try next. I would then clean the barrel, before I got ready to shoot the next combo. Sometimes it would come clean sooner than other times, depending on the bullet I was previously shooting. I remember having to use some Sweets 7.62 a couple of times, in order to get the barrel completely clean. I have tried some loads listed as max loads in some of my loading manuals, but they didn't seem to make any difference either. I did find some fine grinding compound in my basement shop, says it for cleaning, grinding, honing, polishing, lapping and sharpening. Hmmmmmmmmmmm, I think I'll put some on a patch on the end of a cleaning rod and give the barrel a good working over. I don't feel like I have anything to loose, except a crappy barrel that just won't shoot anyway. I'll post my results, after I make it to the range later on in the week.

Bob
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Glen, I've tried Sierra, Speer, Hornady, Rem., Win. and Begers from 40gr. to 55gr and none of them seem to make any noticeable difference. They've all scattered in a random pattern. If all else fails, I'll have it re-barreled to .223 and be done with it. Most all of my guns will eventually belong to my grandkids, so I'll keep them as simple as I can for them.


Bob
 

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May be the scope or mounts

We generally believe when we have a problem that it's the rifle or load but many times it is the scope or mounts thats the problem. Try another scope that you know to be good before you call it quits. John
 

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Ditto on changing the scope.A friend just about chuncked a 270 for the same reason..changed to a different scope and bingo..
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Yup, I've done all of that. Changed bases, rings and scope, still no workie :( I always use a front rest and a rear bag, whenever I want to a rifle to shoot at it's potential. I can shoot a ragged hole(all bullets touching) with my 204, 221 FB & 223, using my front rest and rear bag. All three of the mentionrd 22 CF's are Rem. 700 LVSF models and am very pleased with the way they shoot. I have thought about another 20 cal in the future, so if my lapping session is in vain, who knows. :)

Bob
 

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Just because a barrel coppers up don't mean it won't shoot!

Many of you might remember this from a few years back. This is a Remington 700 ADL SYN in .243 Win that belongs to Expiper. This thing looks like ten miles of bad West Virginia road and shoots like a house on fire for being one of the cheapest rifles one can obtain from any hardware store in America.
I'll try to show a couple groups that this rifle just fired and you won't believe it.

Never before tried more than one pic per post. Don't know if this is gonna work or not. That (if it works) is a five shot group just fired at 100 yds with that ugly barrel. Next pic will show two different 3 shot groups fired with different bullets, different powder and same distance. Just moved point of aim to keep the groups from running together. There is no way a barrel that looks like this should shoot this good on a $325 rifle.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
If I could

get my duce to shoot groups like that 243, I'd be very happy. Trouble is, it just won't do it. I just got done wearing my arm and elbow out, polishing the barrel with some grinding compound. Need to make a trip to the range and see if it made any difference at all. If it still won't shoot, it's time to screw the barrel off and pitch it.

Bob
 

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How about that bore.!!???!!!

Phil that is one of the most ineresting and revealing gun pics...ever....that is the roughest bore I (and most other folks tooo) have ever seen ....When I first got that rifle (285$....) I looked at the bore and it looked trerrible...I shot it a few (15 or 20 during break in) times and it turned a pretty copper color and the lands started to look like they were taped for a 1/4-20 bolt!!!!...I was about to call or write Remington ....""BUT"" as I shot it more and tried various loads .....I realized ...it was shooting great.....I wouldnt trade it for a farm in Texas.....((but I would take 800$...hahaha)) ....it is the rifle I keep stood by the door just in case a suicidal deer or coyote runs thru the back 40......and shoot it on paper every once in a while to win a free lunch or dinner from one of the un-believers out there....I have just about retired it and am saving it for the BBB and other factory type matches....I usually am the only person shooting a gun that is in a cal that is a practical deer ctg. and with a pencil thin bbl. ....not a varmint contour .223 etc...I cant believe it either.....and I bought another one last yr (paid 325$for it)and it is just as rough and shoot "almost as good".....
I am just as perplexed as the other shooters on this thread about the gun that wont shoot......I know there is a lot of talk and hype about these bullets with grinding compound on em.....I am scared of ruining the throat-leade in the chamber......mine looks like it has had rocks shot down it from the factory....but you have seen it shoot......I have had as much fun with it as some of my other rigs costing 10 times as much....my avatar is a pic of me with that "tupperware .243".....it is a good un...Roger
 

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WyGuy,

Have you slugged the barrel to see if it is close to the correct diameter? If the bullets are rattling down the barrel, accuracy won't be good. We'll be waiting for your results.
 

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Valve Grinding Compund

HOw about valve grinding compound and some patches and a whole
lot of elbow grease ? In other words, do some more hand lapping on
the barrel to smooth down the rough edges on the rifling more. Can't
hurt anything unless you get totally carried away. Long strokes all
the way through then repeat. Or short stroke the patch slowly working
your way out to the muzzle, and don't overwork one area, Keep moving
toward the muzzle.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Slugged the barrel

while it was getting re-crowned, so that's not the problem either. I'm begining to wonder if that's the reason I found it in the used gun rack, cause it wouldn't shoot for the previous owner either. :( Expiper, about 16 yrs ago, I got rid of a Win. M70 in 300 Win Mag, that had a barrel on it that would make yours look like a custom barrel. It looked like it have been bored with a rattail file. Once I mined all of the copper out of it, it would make a ragged hole for about the first 9 shots. After that, it would start spray bullets all over the place. Only way I could get it to come completely clean, was with Outers Foul Out. Finally traded the gun for a Rem Sportsman 78 in 308, which has been a very good gun. I was hoping to take the duece to Arizona with me over the christmas holidays, but right now it doesn't look like it's gonna happen. Looks like the 204 & 223 will be making the trip instead.

Bob
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I used some

fine valve grinding compound on a patch with some Kroil on it last night. That was my last ditch effort to try to get this rifle to shoot. I hope it works, but won't know for sure until later on this week. I've always wanted a duece, but this one doesn't wanna play. :( We'll see how it turns out.


Bob
 

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I've had some Savage rifles whose bores looked every bit as bad as the one in the picture....

No one would believe me either, but they shot great. One of them was a 243 that consistently shot in the .4s.

Now I'm not gonna say it wasn't a copper fouling SOB.... cause it certainly was.

But it was a hunting rifle and didn't foul badly until it had 20 or so rounds down it. When it was fouled.... it shot 1.5 - 2" groups for another 20rds and then they turned into pie plate groups. The barrel actually looked copper plated!!

I had to use the Outers "Foul out" system to get it clean... NOTHING else would get all the copper out of it.

I owned it for maybe 10yrs and sold it two years ago.... wish I hadn't, because it was a great truck gun...
 
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