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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am putting together a new varmint rifle. Rifle is going to be an Encore, with a 6.5 X 284 barrel from Fox Ridge. I am going to have David White do a little work to it once I get the barrel. I have narrowed it down to two scopes:

1. Burris Black Diamond. 6 X 24. With their Ballistic Mil-dot reticle.

2. Leupold LR 8.5 X 25 with the Varmint Hunting Reticle.

Rifle will be used from a fixed position, and basically for groundhogs. It might take an occasional doe, and even an occasional coyote. I am familiar with the Leupold, and the Signature Select Burris, but I am new to the Black Diamond. Everything I have read about it is good. The BD is about $125 less. Resale is not an issue. Anyone have any experience? Tom.
 

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Although not having any practical handling of many scopes I have and still do read a quite a bit on them. What stands out on the Burris scopes is the light transmission on their light indexed matched coatings and also the pricing (nicely affordable compared to comparisons with European scopes and slightly better than Leupold ). However when you really want top grade clear resolution and very nice light transmission I recommend you go the whole hog and buy a Nightforce NXS in either 5.5-22x 56 or 8-32x56.
I own a 5.5-22x 56 and have never seen a scope before that could enable me to see my .25cal bullet holes on paper targets out to 300m.
I have shot pigs under a half moon (and no other lighting)at 130m to date.
Yes Burris scopes are damn nice. but I still rate them as mid range of top grade along with leupold). I prefer spending a bit more the first time (hell even the cost of two scopes and getting somthing with a statement of lens alignment to 1x20,000th of an inch. WOW
How many blokes have you met on the range who tell you that your rifle scope gives a better image than than their spotting scope. Ive had a few.
my next scope will be pretty pricey but I'd prefer to wait save up for another year and get a NXS 8-32x56. With a muzzle brake on a good varmint rifle and this kind of setup you will see a varmint turn in to a splatter. A must see.
However when all is said and done, if I was to buy a cheap scope, well the cheapest I would buy which perhaps is not that cheap but half the cost of a nightforce I would buy a burris tactical ilumm 3-12x50. Now I have a question
Q: Are the burris scopes equiped with Lazer etched recticles?
(these are good)
hope this helps Kirk Nairn
 

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At present I own abt. 30 Leupold scope and have had a problem with 1 of them, I dropped a 13 lb. rifle on it and knocked the bell loose. I`ve own 3 Burrius scopes and have now been happy with any of them. One the point of impact would move over 6 in. from low power to high power. One would not adjust through the full range it was supposed to and the third was just plain not clear, especially on higher power settings.
 

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At present I own abt. 30 Leupold scope and have had a problem with 1 of them, I dropped a 13 lb. rifle on it and knocked the bell loose. I`ve own 3 Burrius scopes and have now been happy with any of them. One the point of impact would move over 6 in. from low power to high power. One would not adjust through the full range it was supposed to and the third was just plain not clear, especially on higher power settings.
You're an unlucky guy....I have at least 15 Burris scopes - Black Diamond, Signature, FFII - that are not only clear and sharp, they track perfectly. None have had problems and some have been used really hard for many years on truck guns. But, you're also a lucky guy....I once had about a dozen Leupolds and none of them tracked properly (1/4" adjustments were more like 3/8" or even 1/2"), they didn't repeat, and some would lose zero just sitting around for several months.
 

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Ackman,
I got friends that sware by Burius scopes, but if I touch 1 it goes to sh*#. As for a scope loseing it`s zero just setting around for a while it`s not the scope, it the rifle. Chances are the the stock eather gained or lost some moisture, or for some reason the presure points on the barrel or action have changed.
 

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Ackman,
I got friends that sware by Burius scopes, but if I touch 1 it goes to sh*#. As for a scope loseing it`s zero just setting around for a while it`s not the scope, it the rifle. Chances are the the stock eather gained or lost some moisture, or for some reason the presure points on the barrel or action have changed.
No, the rifles are all bedded and floated and standing vertically. It was the scope, and my guess is that wimpy leaf spring.
 

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I don't think that it is right to comare a $600 scope to a $1200 Scope!

I have two 8-32 Black Diamonds, both on deer rifles, 3 of the 6-24's, and 4 of the 8-32's, 4-12 mini, and a Pentax 3-9 I have never had any problems with any of them!

The thickness of the scope tubes a great features. The leaf spring that holds the elevation and windage steady is a 15 lb spring and the Leupold Vari X III is a 7.5 lb spring. I don't know what leaf springs Leupold uses in their New models. I have sure bounced around a couple of the 6-24 and 8-32 up in the front seat of a pick up and never did they loose zero...tough scopes.

Personally, I don't know why you are not buying an 8-32 instead of a 6x24, it sure will help you on your ground hogs, you can always opt to turn the power down, and it will be there if you need it.

I have shot several deer with my deer rifle that were right out in front of me at 25 yards with the Burris Black DIamond set on 8x and a deer at 300 has not got a chance on a calm day.

I don't doubt what Catfish said, he has just had a run of really bad luck.

My brother's favorite deer rifle scope is the 6-24 Burris Signature with target knobs. He must have a dozen of them and he has never complained about any of them. His Leupold 6.5-20 LR are in the safe, not mounted on a gun. The 8.5-25 Leupold LR is on a 7 Mag, but for some reason he still prefers the Burris 6-24...I think that the reticle on the 8-25 is too thin for early morings and late afternoons.

Perhaps the most annoying thing about a Burris scope is the caps that cover the windage and elevation. Burris uses a cheezy aluminum cap, and if a guy were not careful, he could probably cross thread them.

I can't comment on the new Burris scopes because I don't own any of them.

Good luck on your new scope purchase and if you can swing the extra bucks, I would opt of a nightforce, but you have to be aware that an ultra thin reticle is worthless for deer hunting except in bright sun light.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Prices?

Keith I appreciate your feedback. It is a tough decision. I am considering both because of how close the prices are. The best price I can find on the Burris is $690. The best price I can find on the Leupold is $865. Both have the Varmint type reticle that I want. I can actually get a 6.5 X 20 Leupold with the Varmint reticle for $630. I also considered the Bushnell Elite 4200, and the Signature Select. But I prefer to stay 30mm.

I am trying to determine which scope, of the two, is the best. And not necessarily the best price. Before I would consider a Nightforce, I would buy another Swarovski. In my opinion the Swarovski is the King of the mountain, but all I need for this project is the "PRINCE". Tom.
 

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Head, couple of things......

I had a Leupold 6.5-20 Front focus, 30mm and at the same time I had two Leupold 6.5-20 x 50mm with a 1" tube. On several evenings, I set up a target in my yard 100 yds away from my shop. I can tell you one thing for sure, I could not tell the difference in light gathering ability between the Leupold 1" 50mm tube and the 30mm tube with 50mm front on it. I called Leupold and they told me that they have to market what ever the public thinks is best. In marketing, a well precieved lie is better than an unpopular truth.

I can tell you that the Burris Black Diamond gathers a lot of light to the point to where you need to use the sun shade to eliminate white out early in the mornings.

I worked with a friends 6x24 Swarovski on a total custom 25/06. It was a clear scope and if you were wanting to take pictures through the scope it would be the best that I have seen so far. However, there was not much difference between the Pentax 6-24 and the 6x24 Swarovski in terms of practical use. The disadvantage of the 6x24 Swarovski was that the target knobs were not user friendly to a guy that likes to mark the yardage on the target knobs at known distances. I expected to see a huge difference between the Pentax and the Swarovski but the difference was not there and there is a good explanation for that. When you start getting into 24x, you are in the range were you can see atmospheric conditions.

When using the Pentax and Swarovski 6x24's, I was shooting targets at 100,200, and 300 yards. Contrast and colors were a little bit better with the Swarovski but for practical use, I really could not see paying the extra dollars. If you want to buy bragg'en rights, buy the Swarovski and never look back, it is a fine scope.
 

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DONT touch bushnell!!! Cross hair options are poor. 4200 models I am of the understanding are from a more reeputable company they bought out.
I have one. good light transmission. But thats all!!
 

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Nightforce?

Seems like most of the top benchrest shooters I see around have the NXS mounted up. I'm really starting to get excited about Nightforce. About 95% sure thats whats going on the new LRPV. (If it ever comes in!):D
 

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You know I am in the same boat with burris, leup, or just going all out and getting a nightforce. I just bought a longmaster VT and no scope yet. Its driving me crazy looking at it everyday without a scope and even worse not being able to shoot it. So I really like that varmint reticle on the leup as well as the low profile on the vx-L. Is that the only difference on the VX-III and vx-L, just the lower profile mount? (that and the price) But on the other hand Burris has always been good to me, and those black diamonds look sharp.
 

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I expected to see a huge difference between the Pentax and the Swarovski but the difference was not there and there is a good explanation for that. When you start getting into 24x, you are in the range were you can see atmospheric conditions.

When using the Pentax and Swarovski 6x24's, I was shooting targets at 100,200, and 300 yards. Contrast and colors were a little bit better with the Swarovski but for practical use, I really could not see paying the extra dollars. If you want to buy bragg'en rights, buy the Swarovski and never look back, it is a fine scope.
I second Keith's recommendation of Pentax. I put a Pentax Lightseeker 30 8-32x on my Remington 700 VSSF, and absolutely love it.

Here it is in the photo below, on the top rifle. For comparision, the rifle below is a Browning Varmint Stalker, with a Nikon Monarch 6.5-20x on it.

 

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scopes

The Pentax Lightseeker 30 (8X-32X 50mm.) is made by Burris. It is the exact same scope as a Burris Black Diamond 8X-32X 50mm. Call Pentax USA to confirm. I called Burris, and they told me to call Pentax. Also, all 3 ,"Made in USA" scope manufacturers, Leupold, Burris, and Pentax import their lens' from Japan. I bought a Burris BD 8X-32X 50mm.(fine plex reticle) a couple of weeks ago, to put on my 16lb. 6mmBR bench gun. I am probably going to sell the Leupold VXIII 8.5X-25X 50mm. LRT, with the Varmint Hunter Reticle, that was on this gun for 290 rounds. (I don't like the reticle.) Leupy wants $199 to change reticles. I was going to buy a Nightforce BR, but you have to pay $150 extra for the fine crosshair reticle, which seems rediculous to pay extra for a BR reticle, on a BR scope. I've never had a problem with any of my Leupy's, but I wanted more magnification for 500 yard targets. This is my first Burris, so hopefully it will pan out.
 
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