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differences in recoil
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Rifle recoil table
http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm
Remember, this is calculated recoil. It does not consider rifle fit, which can make a considerable difference in how the recoil feels. I've used rifles up to 375 H&H, but the worst recoil ever was from an 1895 Winchester carbine in 30-40 Krag.
Bruce
http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm
Remember, this is calculated recoil. It does not consider rifle fit, which can make a considerable difference in how the recoil feels. I've used rifles up to 375 H&H, but the worst recoil ever was from an 1895 Winchester carbine in 30-40 Krag.
Bruce
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4,725 Posts
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204 Posts
Java Script recoil calculator.
You can calculate the recoil of each rifle here:
http://www.varmintal.com/ashot.htm#Calculate_Recoil
It also includes muzzle brake effects if one is on the rifle. The muzzle brake percent efficiency is the (vent hole area/(vent hole area + bore diameter area))*100.
You can calculate the recoil of each rifle here:
http://www.varmintal.com/ashot.htm#Calculate_Recoil
It also includes muzzle brake effects if one is on the rifle. The muzzle brake percent efficiency is the (vent hole area/(vent hole area + bore diameter area))*100.
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Mr. Al
Just curious.
Have you ever calculated the effects of muzzle jump due to the eccentricities involved in various differences in stock to muzzle configurations?
Just curious.
Here is another calculator, you can compare two side by side....
http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp
Bill
http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp
Bill
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204 Posts
No. The calculation would be easy enough, but the difficulty would be determining the MOI (Moment of Inertia) of each part about its own CG (Center of Gravity) and then translating the MOI of each part to the CG of the complete rifle. One would need to know the density and geometry of each part and its CG location with respects to the rifle's CG.
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460 Posts
Interesting Problem Though
I think it would be interesting, especially in large pistols and determining the effects/advantages of porting and muzzle brake configurations. Various porting methods that are proposed on some brakes may be more or less advantageous than advertised (some porting being at forward acute angles to the barrel).
Later - oh and I visit your site on a regular basis. Still trying to get better off the bi-fur pod. Took one and missed one last time out.
Thanks.
It does sound like a math problem.
I think it would be interesting, especially in large pistols and determining the effects/advantages of porting and muzzle brake configurations. Various porting methods that are proposed on some brakes may be more or less advantageous than advertised (some porting being at forward acute angles to the barrel).
Later - oh and I visit your site on a regular basis. Still trying to get better off the bi-fur pod. Took one and missed one last time out.
Thanks.
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4,725 Posts
Al is right
A frustrated enjuneer as he is (just kiddin' Al
)
I like BIG rifles too. So, unpleasant as that 300 Win Mag in the Rem R00 was, I did spend several months reading what I could find on stocks for heavy kickers (this was back in the days when the Abacus was still considered a fast computer - and long before Al Gore invented the internet )
I was able to distill my research down to a few key considerations, and then build a rifle to test what I had learned. Here are the nuggets to less felt recoil-
The stock in the picture below is a Royal Arms thumbhole stock; one of the first to offer a thumbhole style stock for an African class rifle. This stock addresses all the keys listed, except the brake, of course.
![]()
Books have been written about stock design, so whatever I write here on the subject is brutally brief! So bear with me:
Note the bore's centerline is very nearly aligned with the heel of the butt. This effectively reduces muzzle jump to a manageable degree. (Actually, some muzzle jump is not all bad, when it comes to dealing with recoil. As long as muzzle jump is manageable, i.e., the shooter's grip isn't lost or the face doesn't get involved in arresting that rotational energy, some jump is a part of dealing with a portion of recoil energy! Recoil energy transposed into muzzle rotational energy doesn't go to the shoulder. That energy can be countered and dissipated by the shooter's arm gripping the forearm instead. This is a balancing act that knowledgeable stock makers wrestle with on a regular basis.)
Roy Weatherby did a lot of research into proper rifle stock design for heavy kickers. That comb height angling rather sharply down toward the tang is one of Roy's concepts and clearly influenced the Royal Arms stock design.
Not seen in this photo is the width of the stock butt in the recoil area. This stock is no skinny-mini! In addition, the recoil pad can be radiused outward from the edges of the stock to significantly increase the recoil pad contact area on the shoulder which goes a long way to making recoil more manageable.
The unfinished stock has plenty of "beef" as it is. But, if one wants a stock that has slimmer features and still have some weight, lead can be added if necessary. This addresses the weight/felt recoil factor. The only thing left is a muzzle brake.
Bottom line, a rifle with significantly more punch than the .243 can be had and may even have less felt recoil.
P.
A frustrated enjuneer as he is (just kiddin' Al
)I like BIG rifles too. So, unpleasant as that 300 Win Mag in the Rem R00 was, I did spend several months reading what I could find on stocks for heavy kickers (this was back in the days when the Abacus was still considered a fast computer - and long before Al Gore invented the internet
)I was able to distill my research down to a few key considerations, and then build a rifle to test what I had learned. Here are the nuggets to less felt recoil-
- To a point, the bore centerline should be in close alignment with the center of gravity of the rifle and should be as close to the center of the recoil contact area (on the shoulder) as practical.
- The comb height should angle down toward the tang.
- The greater the surface of the recoil patch between the gun and the shoulder is, the better (to dissipate the force over the largest area practical).
- Heavier gun = less felt recoil
- Muzzle brakes.
The stock in the picture below is a Royal Arms thumbhole stock; one of the first to offer a thumbhole style stock for an African class rifle. This stock addresses all the keys listed, except the brake, of course.
Books have been written about stock design, so whatever I write here on the subject is brutally brief! So bear with me:
Note the bore's centerline is very nearly aligned with the heel of the butt. This effectively reduces muzzle jump to a manageable degree. (Actually, some muzzle jump is not all bad, when it comes to dealing with recoil. As long as muzzle jump is manageable, i.e., the shooter's grip isn't lost or the face doesn't get involved in arresting that rotational energy,
some jump is a part of dealing with a portion of recoil energy! Recoil energy transposed into muzzle rotational energy doesn't go to the shoulder. That energy can be countered and dissipated by the shooter's arm gripping the forearm instead. This is a balancing act that knowledgeable stock makers wrestle with on a regular basis.)Roy Weatherby did a lot of research into proper rifle stock design for heavy kickers. That comb height angling rather sharply down toward the tang is one of Roy's concepts and clearly influenced the Royal Arms stock design.
Not seen in this photo is the width of the stock butt in the recoil area. This stock is no skinny-mini! In addition, the recoil pad can be radiused outward from the edges of the stock to significantly increase the recoil pad contact area on the shoulder which goes a long way to making recoil more manageable.
The unfinished stock has plenty of "beef" as it is. But, if one wants a stock that has slimmer features and still have some weight, lead can be added if necessary. This addresses the weight/felt recoil factor. The only thing left is a muzzle brake.
Bottom line, a rifle with significantly more punch than the .243 can be had and may even have less felt recoil.
P.
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726 Posts
A .308 Win would not be bad
Remember that the lighter the rifle, the heavier the recoil, especially the recoil velocity. So my advice would be to not get something super light for her.
The only other option that others have not mentioned would be for her to consider an autoloading rifle. A Browning ShortTrac BAR in .308 would be a real handy rifle, and offer additional recoil reduction, due to the gas operated action. If you don't hunt in real open country that requires long shots, that might be worthwhile to consider.
I have a Browning BAR in 30-06, and its recoil with standard velocity 150 gr bullets is quite mild. And it even functions fine with the low recoil reduced loads. With them, it truely feels like I am shooting a .243
Lance in Orygun
A .308 150 gr load would not have very high recoil. And ammo is relatively less expensive for practicing. Plus you can get "Low Recoil" loads for it from Federal and Remington, that would be similar to her .243 in recoil.
Remember that the lighter the rifle, the heavier the recoil, especially the recoil velocity. So my advice would be to not get something super light for her.
The only other option that others have not mentioned would be for her to consider an autoloading rifle. A Browning ShortTrac BAR in .308 would be a real handy rifle, and offer additional recoil reduction, due to the gas operated action. If you don't hunt in real open country that requires long shots, that might be worthwhile to consider.
I have a Browning BAR in 30-06, and its recoil with standard velocity 150 gr bullets is quite mild. And it even functions fine with the low recoil reduced loads. With them, it truely feels like I am shooting a .243
Lance in Orygun
I agree on the stock design and personal fit
I love my .375 H&Hs but the most unpleasant rifle I ever shot was a Rem 700 BDL in 300 Win Mag.
One of my favorite rifles is a Rem BDL in 300 Win Mag. I am 6'3" and the stock dimensions seem to fit me perfectly. For me, it seems to kick less than many of my non-magnum centerfires. It is also a tack driver.
I love my .375 H&Hs but the most unpleasant rifle I ever shot was a Rem 700 BDL in 300 Win Mag.
One of my favorite rifles is a Rem BDL in 300 Win Mag. I am 6'3" and the stock dimensions seem to fit me perfectly. For me, it seems to kick less than many of my non-magnum centerfires. It is also a tack driver.
recoil
In all reality I dont see an absolute need to have a cartridge larger than 243 or 260 for deer unless you have sepecial requirments. Both will work fin as long as she can hit the deer. If she cant then a larger cartrige or caliber will not make the diff. I also recomend barnes TSX for max penetration.
In all reality I dont see an absolute need to have a cartridge larger than 243 or 260 for deer unless you have sepecial requirments. Both will work fin as long as she can hit the deer. If she cant then a larger cartrige or caliber will not make the diff. I also recomend barnes TSX for max penetration.
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