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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've got this 22-250, it's a factory 700VS (the old style before the VSF). It groups very well. I've shot several half inch groups at 100 and sub inch groups with it at 200 yards. I have a good load worked up. The problem is that "some days" it'll only do about an inch and a half to two inches at 100 yards. Thought I had this solved, apparantly I do not. Shot it on Saturday. My first shot went high, consistent with the 200 yard zero it's set for. Shot number two went directly where I was aiming. Numbers three through six went about 1.5 inch low and 2.0 inches left of point of aim (no scope adjustments were made during this group). When it shoots good (60% or so of the time) it's great, but when it sours, it always throws the fliers to that same "down and left" area of the target, it is consistent in that regard. The barrel floats fully. The stock in synthetic, so I can't blame warped wood. The action screws are tight, but not so much as to bind the action. Temperature does not seem to play a part as it has shot well and poor at 70, 30, and 95 degrees. My only two leads are:

1. The scope (Nikon Monarch 6.5-20) once took a bit of a fall when it was on another rifle. I think this could explain the changing point of impact, if the scope has been harmed in some way. It's mounted in Burris Signature Zee rings (the ones with the plastic inserts). Also, when the groups are sour, I can try another day, reset the zero, and it'll be great.

2. Perhaps sometimes my 22-250 and it's 1-14" twist isn't stabilizing my 55gr. Sierra blitzking all the time. The holes are not oblong shaped, but who knows? I tried 55 Nosler's, and get the same results.

By the way, this tendency exists in the same box of shells with all bullets, primers, and powder coming from the same lot. Cleaning (or not) hasn't shown to have an effect one way or the other either.

If anyone has any ideas, I'm open to suggestions, maybe I'm missing something. Thanks in advance
 

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Wish I could help...

I once bought an NEF handi-rifle in .223, had the exact same experience with it!! I worked-up a load w/ W748 and A 50 gn. TNT, the little rifle shot 3 shot groups that hovered around 1/2" one day and over 2" the next! I bought the rifle for a "bang-around" pick-up gun, something that I would always have in the truck. I got totally frustrated w/ it and sold it! Hope you have better luck w/ your rifle. Maybe someone more experienced than I can help you!! Good luck!! Russ
 

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******* I think I would try another scope since you know about it "taking a fall". I've been there done that on a bad scope and all the time I kept convincing myself it was not the scope. There could be some other things involved but I would do that first I think. Make sure you don't have a coppering problem too.
 

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How long has the ammo been loaded? Bullet sticking in the neck a bit perhaps, giving inconsistent neck tension?
 

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Couple things...

The key piece of info is that it runs hot and cold with the same batch of ammo. (Having just recently gone thru that same situation, it is still pretty fresh in my mind!)

Something is NOT stabile. Try a different scope (easy to do), and failing that, I would suspect a bedding problem, whether or not it has a bedding block or not! You say the barrel is floated, but IS it? I danced around that question one entire year, trying to find out what was going on. Then it turned out that the "dollar bill" float was proven to be worthless. (I went to a full 1/8" gap - damn sure doesn't touch, and it aids in uniform cooling to boot**.

**Note: IF it shoots well initially, but goes to pot after it has cooled down some, it may not be cooling uniformly. Try standing it upright with the bolt open so as to encourage an updraft thru the bore. Also, open up that float!​

While you're at it, have a look at the crown with a magnifying glass or eye loupe. If there are ANY scratches breaching the bore and the crown, it needs to be lapped.

Well, see what works and keep us posted. We need that gun at the BBB, ya know!!;)

P.
 

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I addition to what the others have said: I have been told that the 55 grain blitzking really needs a 12 twist barrel, this is due to the long bearing surface. Paul Box at Sierra told me that it basically is a crapshoot that a 14 twist barrel would stabilize one.
 

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Wow! Good catch!!

I addition to what the others have said: I have been told that the 55 grain blitzking really needs a 12 twist barrel, this is due to the long bearing surface. Paul Box at Sierra told me that it basically is a crapshoot that a 14 twist barrel would stabilize one.
I guess I'm still smarting from a bedding issue causing the same problems with group consistancy:rolleyes: . I didn't pick up on the 14 twist/55 gn pills in a 22-250, but you hit on something there! :eek:

In the 9 years I've been watching this board, there has probably been a dozen or more incidents where folks were having problems stabilizing the 55 V-Max and Blitzking in a 22-250. However, the faster 22-250AI matches 220 Swift velocities (3800+) with those bullets, and the 14 twist is not a problem up there.

An alternative 55 gn bullet would be the Nolser 55BT. B/c of the copper base, the CG is farther forward. So, sometimes when a 55 V-Max or Blitzking will not stablilize, the Nosler 55BT might do fine.

Good point.

P.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Paul....

I tried the 55 Nosler BT. Funny thing was, the BT and the BK would shoot well with the exact same load, just changing bullets and OAL to match their profiles. I had more NOslers than Sierra's, and this is where the rifle first picked up that annoying tendency. So I ordered a bunch of Blitzkings, and I thought I had it licked, especially with what I was getting at 200 yards. Now my prob is back. When I was doing load development, I hit on a pretty good load with a 50 grain Blitzking, maybe I'll return to it... and swap scopes. Thanks all.
 

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I see that you live North of the Mason Dixon line.....

jeez, it's pretty cold up there. Maybe you developed your load when it was warmer and now the load has turned into a sack of Hell.

If you have another scope you can try, swap scopes around.

Also, wind conditions can really tear up the best of loads. Funny thing is that guys will buy the best of dies, barrels, bullets, rifle rests, and never spend $50 on a wind flag, which is way more important than most of the above. There are only 4 directions to remember on a wind flag, best accuracy tool that you could ever spend money on.

The bullets that you mentioned may not be stabalized if you have lost velocity to extreme cold. I have a 22/250 VSSF that I shoot the 55g HOrnady V max in and it is a screamer barrel, but again in warm weather. You will not have any problems with the 55g Nosler in a 14 twist.

I tried Varget in three 22/250's shooting 55g bullets and three shot groups about 5/8-3/4" was the best that I could get. I went to a load of 39.5g of IMR 4350 with a 55g Nosler in my 700 that chews a ragged hole at 100 and holds up well at 300.

Good luck, I know that when your gun goes South like this it is kinda like seeing your wife with a Tall Black Marine. I am sure that you will figure out fairly quickly what is going on with your wife, I mean your rifle.
 

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hehehe

I'm not sure about the Marine thing but.....:) my vote is bedding. Variations in humidity causing changing and uneven tension on the action or as mentoned earlier the barrel. Make sure you can run a doubled over, or even 3 folded dollar bill under the barrel. As Keith said, Illinois temps are pretty cold, throw that in the equation and it could be a combination of things.

Another thing is, be careful where you set your front rest when shooting off the bench. I keep mine back towards the action and strive to set the rifle the same exact way for each shot the best I can. That can make a huge impact on accuracy.
 

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I agree,
two things. Use another scope and buy, or load some fresh ammunition. I have a Savage 12BVSS with a 14 twist that shoots VERY well with 55gr pills. My preference was for the 55gr V-Max and 35.5gr Varget. 36gr Varget with the same bullet shot even better, but it was getting a little tough on the brass and lifting the bolt handle in my rifle.
Also look at the tension on the action bolts. back them out and re-tighten them evenly.
Ken
 

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Boarderline stability...

Harrold Vaughn (author "Rifle Accuracy Facts", ch. 10) describes how air density can cause a bullet to be unstabile at low altitudes and or temperatures, whereas at high altitude on a warm day it might shoot fine. So, just another potato for the stew pot, when it was shooting OK vs. days when it was not shooting, were the not-so-good days cold by chance?

Just a thought. In any case, I think the lighter pills would be the better way to go. The 22-250 with a 14 should be ugly with 40s or 50s, I would think. No need to force it to digest the 55s, unless you just "hafta".

P.
 

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Since you're only shooting 200 yards or less I doubt twist is a factor. Standard twist for a 22-250 is 1-10" if my memory serves correctly. Look at the barrel channel and see if the barrel is floated or if it has a factory pressure point toward the end of the forearm. Unless the pressure/velocity/barrel frequency is running right on the edge of the stability band I seriously doubt your load is an issue to address first. However, if the load were developed in a vastly different temperature try varying the charge appropiately, otherwise duplicate the velocity that shot well. Scopes generally reproduce results, either good or bad groups. I've never known one that changed to vary group consistency or size with outside temperature but. My bet is forearm pressure on the barrel especially since you stated the rifle is one of the older Remingtons. Correct by sanding pressure points down and float that hearvy varmint weight barrel. Afterwards, bedding the action may help, and certainly won't hurt.

You know it would be most interesting to hear about the solution once discovered and corrected. So please let everyone here know. We need more positive feedback, good therapy for all of us keyboard varminteers!

Hope this helps...
 

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Try to simplify things

As you've seen, there are a number of possibilities to check----bedding, scope, scope mounts, screw torque, bullet/ twist incompatibility, crown plus more.

Common sense says that only one variable should be changed at a time but some manage to get away with juggling more than one thing.

Many 700V's can be made to shoot very well without bedding if the barrel is adequately floated and the recoil lug bears squarely.

If you have it, a known good scope plus a good check on the mounting hardware might answer some questions.

You might be able to prove out the mechanical integrity of the gun----bedding, scope and mounts and screw torque with a different bullet that will definitely be compatible with your twist rate-----52 gr match bullets, 50 and 55 gr spitzers, 55 gr BTSP and maybe even 50 gr Blitz Kings. Find something the gun will shoot before addressing the question of the longer 55 BK's.

I got the same advice from Sierra as Sam in VA got on the 55 gr BK's and replaced a shot 14" twist barrel with a 12" twist-----shot very well. On the other hand, I have another 22-250 with a 14" twist that shoots the 55 BK very well-----just blind luck.

Let us know what you find.

A. Weldy
 

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Since you're only shooting 200 yards or less I doubt twist is a factor. Standard twist for a 22-250 is 1-10" if my memory serves correctly.
I believe most manufacturers use 1-14" twist on 22-250s.

I have 2 and both will stabilize 55 BTs, 60FBs and the winchester FB 64gr bullet.

I have a 788 in 222 with a 14 twist and it will stabilize 55 BTs, but nothing heavier, not even the FBs...

And I'm pretty certain that I've shot every make of 55gr BT out there....
 

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One more important thing to look at with the scope

Lots of people spend a considerable amount of time trying to narrow down accuracy issues when the problem is literally right in front of their face.

Make sure the locking ring on the ocular lens (the one you look into) is good and tight. Once you get it tight, grasp the ocular behind the lock ring and tighten it too. You'll be amazed how much it will move. Sometimes you'll get as much as 3/4 of a turn before it finally locks itself. If you have a fast focus type of scope, this should not apply.

Another thing to watch out for is not leveraging your bolt open by placing your thumb on the scope. If you insist on doing this (my Dad has this bad habit), only place your thumb on top of the rear ring. If you open your bolt as described above and the ocular is loose, it will throw shots all over the place. Eventually the impact point will temporarily return to where you have it set.

One final thing to try is, if you tend to rest your hand on the scope while shooting, you can move the impact point by as much as 1-1/2" from point of aim. Try it sometime. Set the gun in solid rests, place the crosshairs on the aim point and rest your hand on the objective. Trust me it will move. The effect worsens with longer scopes and if you have a sunshade attached.

Before you swap out a scope, check these out and reshoot the gun. You can always swap the scope at the range if you need to.

Hope this helps out.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Okay, barrel floating

Two dollar bills passed the entire channel with not problem. Three did a little rubbing. Trying two things at once aint recommended, but I'm gonna dare it anyway. First, I'm gonna swap scopes with it and another rifle, (since I have another box of these exact same loads, I can repeat the tests with the load), and second, I'm gonna go back to that load with the 50 gr. Blitzkings. If problem persists with 55's with the new scope, but doesn't exist with the 50's, I'll know bullet. If it disappears with new scope, I'll know scope. And if it still fails with new scope and both loads... well, ever seen a varmint rifle as a javelin?

Thanks for all the help, I appreciate it.
 
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