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Discussion Starter #1
I am going to take a shot at pillars. I have a question. How do you determine how long to make the pillars. What datum points do you measure between?
Logic tells me to measure the depth of the front and rear action screw openings in the stock and add an 1/8th inch or so and glue in place. Once in place relieve wood around the pillars so you have a decent amount of bedding for strength.



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Although Brownell's sells bushings intended for pillar bedding, and I've used a couple at times, I've had great luck with bronze bushings from ACE Hardware too.

The length of the bushing I cut so only 1-2mm protrudes from the stock at each end of the bushing(s) (pillar). Then, the pillar is epoxied into place, and after which, as part of the bedding process, both ends of the pillar area are surrounded by epoxy so that the action and the floor plate sandwich the pillars - thus putting the force on the pillars and taking the force on stock (wood especially) out of the picture...which is the intended concept in the first place.

As part of the bedding, I'll lay in enough epoxy to support the barrel forward of the recoil lug by about 1-1/2" which (I think) reduces the stress on the barrel threads.

Since about 1997 I've been using JB Weld for all my bedding projects. And, I use a film of stock wax on the steel parts as a release agent.

Just a note or two: I've read many times how important it is when bedding a rifle to remove wood from under the recoil lug and the sides of the lug when striving for accuracy. But, I question the validity of that (and/or the circumstances which lead to the recommendation...and whether that recommendation has just been passed 'word of mouth' down through the ages???). I'm at a loss to explain that recommendation vs. how a "glue-in" benchrest gun differs where once the BR rifle is bedded, it is bedded "for good". IOW, the barreled action is NOT extracted soze the area at the bottom and around the sides of the recoil lug can be relieved, and heaven knows their accuracy is no impeded as result!

I've not been able to say accuracy on any of my bedding jobs was better with the bottom and sides of the recoil lug relieved. None. And, in fact, in one case the rifle shot better before I pulled the action out and (with a Dremel) relieved the bottom/sides of the recoil lug. (I can't say it was because of my relieving the bottom/sides as opposed to leaving the epoxy alone - could have been any number of other reasons. But! I've never had a rifle group better after relieving the epoxy from the bottom/sides of the lug...FWIW (i.e., for what it's worth).

Some will bed the entire action on a varmint rifle between the recoil lug and the tang screw - almost like a "glue-in". But, too I've read that a 2-point bedding; one being the lug area and the other being the tang screw area ONLY. I've done it both ways - i.e., full length and the 2-point method, and I can't say one was better than the other, in my experience. If someone has different experiences, I'd love to know about it and to analyze the particulars!

Well, back to the subject: Pillar bedding. Is is worth it? On that I can say from experience when reinstalling the barreled action to the stock:definitely YES! The pillars remove any of the usual spongyness of the wood and consequently the bedding tension - even if the action is epoxy bedded (but to a lesser extent perhaps).

Over the years, with the help of several books on building an accurate rifle by various benchrest competitors as well as experience from an old sage like Rick Fox (my favorite OLD SAGE!:D), I've evolved to the point where I won't even shoot a new store-bought rifle until the action - and the bedding in particular - has been worked up. Some may say this or that isn't necessary on this or that rifle, and they may be right: maybe not necessary. But, do they also say (whichever of my processes) will harm accuracy? No. They do not. (Besides...I'm retired now, and I have the time and enjoy fussing with the guns. So, what's the harm?:rolleyes::D)

If any of this helps someone, I'm glad to play this all forward.

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Since about 1997 I've been using JB Weld for all my bedding projects.
After doing one or two bedding jobs with JB Weld, I read something that got me all hot to try Devcon. I forget which type, but Devcon. So, I ordered the stuff online. Next thing you know I'm getting a notice from UPS saying I have to pick the Devcon up at their distribution hub, bring photo ID, sign for it, and all sorts of stuff in order to receive my "restricted materials" or something like that. I still haven't figured it all out, but apparently because Devcon is a putty-like substance it shows up on X-ray and such as being very similar to somethng like C4.

So, if I could find the Devcon locally I could walk in, buy it, and walk out, just like a pack of gum. But order that stuff so it has to be put on a plane and it's a whole different ball of wax. I have no idea if it's still that way or not, I just thought it a little strange.

Carpman
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks Paul, I had not considered extending the pillars below the action, but it makes sense. I see there would be the risk of bending the floor plate or crushing some wood when you tighten it to German standards. (Guttentite)
 

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Bedding----untried idea, etc

After working with a couple of Mauser 98's, I wonder if there isn't an easier method of pillar bedding.

These rifles had a metal sleeve around the front action screw----not glued in but a reasonably close fit to the stock hole.

Was this intended to be what we now call a pillar ?

There is quite an assortment of bushings, tubing and such material available at reasonable cost.

i haven't tried this but think it would be a bit easier to do-----but would it work ?

Mike, I've used a number of bedding compounds, including Devcon Steel, Devcon Alumiinum and JB Weld. I couldn't see any difference in accuracy between these three compounds. I now use JB Weld because its easily available and seems to get the job done.

Some people make their choice based on the shrinkage spec's. I'm waiting to hear if it made a difference to them-----not counting between the ears.

I had a concern about Devcon Steel possibly rusting but never saw any evidence of it.

Paul, I also bed the recoil lug on Rem's, without any clearance----not pushing the
practice, just fessin' up for my renegade sins.

The only reasonable----to me----argument against this practice is that removing and replacing the action can scrape epoxy that will get under the bottom of the recoil lug----pretty simple to grind the bottom of the hole a little deeper for a reservoir for any scraped material.

Just hoping you guys will figure this out and tell us about the "best" method.

A. Weldy
 

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The only reasonable----to me----argument against this practice is that removing and replacing the action can scrape epoxy that will get under the bottom of the recoil lug----pretty simple to grind the bottom of the hole a little deeper for a reservoir for any scraped material.

Just hoping you guys will figure this out and tell us about the "best" method.

A. Weldy
We're thinking alike...and don't think I'm not worried!:D

Whenever, if ever I remove the action from the bedded stock, I'll grind out a little space under the bottom of the lug to allow any scrapings to collect w/o resulting in introducing a change in the stress or bedding either.

OH! I forgot to mention that before I call it done, I'll relieve the bedding from around the tang so that the tang can expand or contract with temperature and/or recoil vibrations.

The relief amounts to about 2 mm rear of the tang to allow fore and aft movement. Of course the recoil lug area is solid.

Also, I read somewhere that it is better to avoid bedding the entire action surfaces between the recoil lug and the tang. The article made the argument that: "a line is defined by any two points. A third interim point introduces stress (to a rifle action).

Well, that makes sense. And, besides, it is a lot easier if I only have to spread epoxy at the two points than it is to do so along the entire action.

And, one other point: I NEVER bed the stock under the barrel except for an inch or so ahead of the recoil lug. In fact, on a varmint gun where the barrel gets HOT, I open up the barrel channel a good 1/8th inch around the barrel (taking a clue from some of the ventilated, custom varmint stocks and military sniper designs.)

I once had my 6BR accuracy suddenly go south on me, only to find the nut on the swivel stud had backed out to narrow the gap between it and the barrel. But, when I slid a dollar bill under and along the barrel to check for clearance, nothing would lead me to believe there was something wrong with the bedding. Only after I pulled it apart did I notice the little shiny spot on the under side of the barrel, directly above the swivel nut. (I was using the swivel stud to anchor the bipod.)

The point taken (for me anyway) was just how much accuracy could be affected should any change in barrel to stock contact occur for any reason. And, to prove it, when I increased the stud nut to barrel gap to a good 1/8th inch (flush with the rest of the barrel channel), accuracy returned.

So, for me (if nobody else), the less interference with the barrel by anything such as the stock, or swivel studs, or slings, etc., etc....THE BETTER!

Bedding: When it comes to contact with the action and especially the barrel. I prefer the "KISS" principle. Less is more!

Your groups may vary!
 
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