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I just got a 17 mach IV and looking to load for rat shooting. Whats everyone's opinion on shoooting moly or not in 17 cal.
Moly or not??
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The age-old argument...
I've had 65/35 good and bad experiences w/ Moly. Those that seem to benefit the most are my 17 Mach IV and the 223s. On the flip side, some kind of hard buildup ahead of the chamber that I NEVER experienced before using moly in a couple 220 Swifts (almost ruined a custom barrel).
I stopped using all those special cleaning treatments supposed to be designed for moly use, and clean the same way I would for "barefoot" bullets. Hu put me onto using Lock Ease graphite to lube the bbl and prep for moly, and it is a Godsend in every bbl I've used it in to date.
But, there's still the issue of having to build up the moly in the bbl after cleaning - requiring as many as 5 rounds to settle down. That's why I switched to Danzac. Although moly isn't supposed to build on itself, SOMETHING like that is happening in many cases. This is NOT happening with the Danzac, and I find it extremely easy to work with; apply and remove and NO buildup of the kind experienced w/ moly.
Bottom line: I'm convinced there is some advantage to a dry lube in the bore, but so far Danzac has kept or exceeded the promise moly always made where in my experience, moly has been a love/hate thing from the beginning for me!
FWIW,
P.
Cutting to the chase, you might just have to try it to see if it works for you.
I've had 65/35 good and bad experiences w/ Moly. Those that seem to benefit the most are my 17 Mach IV and the 223s. On the flip side, some kind of hard buildup ahead of the chamber that I NEVER experienced before using moly in a couple 220 Swifts (almost ruined a custom barrel).
I stopped using all those special cleaning treatments supposed to be designed for moly use, and clean the same way I would for "barefoot" bullets. Hu put me onto using Lock Ease graphite to lube the bbl and prep for moly, and it is a Godsend in every bbl I've used it in to date.
But, there's still the issue of having to build up the moly in the bbl after cleaning - requiring as many as 5 rounds to settle down. That's why I switched to Danzac. Although moly isn't supposed to build on itself, SOMETHING like that is happening in many cases. This is NOT happening with the Danzac, and I find it extremely easy to work with; apply and remove and NO buildup of the kind experienced w/ moly.
Bottom line: I'm convinced there is some advantage to a dry lube in the bore, but so far Danzac has kept or exceeded the promise moly always made where in my experience, moly has been a love/hate thing from the beginning for me!
FWIW,
P.
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I shoot a 17 Rem and push the bullets to just under 4000fps. For many years I have used Fastex to coat my bullets and Eezox to clean the barrels. So far no build up to cause any problems, you will still get some copper build up but I have never had enough to degrade accuracy. Cleaning has been a snap, use Eezox every time I clean and what copper, or other fouling, that has been deposited in the barrel comes out with very little effort.
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where can I get this DANZAC
and what is it !!! NOW I'M INTRESTED!!!!!!
and what is it !!! NOW I'M INTRESTED!!!!!!
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94 Posts
Yes, Wherew can I get this Danzac?? How is it applied.
I tried Molly in a .17 Rem. and got build up the totally ruined accuracy. It was a used gun when I got it but had not fired over 100 rounds through it. I had to fire lap it to get it to shoot again. No amount of cleaning would clean it and the fire lapping was a last resort to rebarreling. I will never fire a Molly coated bullet in my guns again.
Moly in .17 Mach IV
All 2000 20 gr V-Max's that have been shot in my Pacnor barreled .17 Mach IV
have been molly coated. I've not had any problems cleaning. I use normal cleaning methods,a couple of patches wet with Butch's Bore Shine or Shooters Choice then brush a few strokes is all it takes.
My experience has been if you want to shoot instead of clean use moly bullets and VV powder.
One example:
A couple of years ago I shot my 219 wasp 530 rounds in SD without cleaning,
brought it home dirty,at the range it grouped same as before.
Dave in IN
All 2000 20 gr V-Max's that have been shot in my Pacnor barreled .17 Mach IV
have been molly coated. I've not had any problems cleaning. I use normal cleaning methods,a couple of patches wet with Butch's Bore Shine or Shooters Choice then brush a few strokes is all it takes.
My experience has been if you want to shoot instead of clean use moly bullets and VV powder.
One example:
A couple of years ago I shot my 219 wasp 530 rounds in SD without cleaning,
brought it home dirty,at the range it grouped same as before.
Dave in IN
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392 Posts
Moly
Hart barrels recommends against using moly
Hart barrels recommends against using moly
Another option is
to use Keith Candler's approach of coating the bullets with Lee's sizing lube. It dries to the touch quickly. It is cheap, easy to get and apply and works. I did it on the 17 Remington anbd the Swift this year for PD's, and it worked great. Very little copper in either one, and I probably shot 60-70 rounds in the 17 without cleaning. A friend uses Fastex, and it also works great. Danzac is tungsten disulfide, a cousin to the molybdenum disulfide ("moly").
to use Keith Candler's approach of coating the bullets with Lee's sizing lube. It dries to the touch quickly. It is cheap, easy to get and apply and works. I did it on the 17 Remington anbd the Swift this year for PD's, and it worked great. Very little copper in either one, and I probably shot 60-70 rounds in the 17 without cleaning. A friend uses Fastex, and it also works great. Danzac is tungsten disulfide, a cousin to the molybdenum disulfide ("moly").
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Another oar in the water for Fastex. Unlike Moly, if you wish to shoot uncoated bullets once in a while, you can. You can also treat both the bore and the bullets ahead of time with Fastex, or either one alone.
Fastex also totally prevents rust on the outside of the gun, at least in my experience with my carry gun. Not even sweat rusts it after being Fastex-treated.
Fastex also totally prevents rust on the outside of the gun, at least in my experience with my carry gun. Not even sweat rusts it after being Fastex-treated.
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MOLY attract's moisture
So Now Do U Clean With The Recomenden Nylon Brush Or Use Brass That Is Not Recomended!!!
So Now Do U Clean With The Recomenden Nylon Brush Or Use Brass That Is Not Recomended!!!
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392 Posts
Is that the Lees' liquid alox you are referring to?
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Test (Ignore)
I'm just finding my way around the board.
I'm just finding my way around the board.
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I just posted a reply and cannot retrieve it. The page numbers are missing, so I cannot click on the page number which means that I cannot go any further than the scrolling window will let me. I have gotten completely out of the forum and back in and still the same problem.
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Well, Crowhunter it looks like quick relpy might be the way to go 
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Ignore this post.
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I use the same cleaning routine for Tungsten disulphide (aka Danzac) as I do for non-coated bullets; one of the advantages of Danzac.
Specifically, I use
- a couple wet patches of Montana Extreme or Shooter's Choice,
- brushing with a Montana or SC using a nylon brush,
- two more patches of ME/SC, two-three dry patches,
- one patch wetted with Lock-Ease (short stroked)
I fire two foulers and the Danzac coated bullets are back in the center of the group - unlike that moly crap.
All in all I find the Danzac to be very effective; keeping moly's promises, as it were, AND is very easy to work with. The application and cleanup is soooooo trouble free. No buildup problems (I have had with moly use), no special handling, etc. As for extending the number of rounds between cleanings, I can only report that I have done shot strings in excess of 50 rounds without any copper fouling that the procedure (above) would not remove, if there was any fouling at all!!
After several cleaning sessions I will run a patch of Sweets 7.62 and let it sit for about 2 minutes to check for copper. IF a dry patch is clean or only a faint greenish-blue tint is present, I patch out the Sweets, do a Lock-Ease patch and go. If there is dark blue, then I short stroke a couple patches of JB followed by 3-4 wet patches until the JB is gone, dry the bore, and Lock-Ease and go.
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John Beauchamp might have some on hand from the last order. I think he charges $3/oz, and 3-4 oz will last a helluva long time - 1000s and 1000s of bullets worth!
IF you want to buy it direct, Google Tungsten Disulphide and look for suppliers carrying it in 3 micron size (is what ya want). Last time I looked it was about $38/pound.
I clean my bullets (about 100 at a time) with the non-petroleum brake cleaner, put them in a large vitamin pill bottle with about as much Danzac as will fill an empty 22LR case (needs more the first time to prime the pill bottle), tighten the lid and toss the bottle onto the media in my vibratory tumbler for a couple hours...Voila!
Then I pour the bullets out on a paper towel and with another paper towel under my palm, I roll the bullets around for a few seconds to polish off any dust or exess. They come out a shiny steel gray and it won't stick to your fingers (or at least not mine - very dry hands have I).
Great stuff!!!!
P.
IF you want to buy it direct, Google Tungsten Disulphide and look for suppliers carrying it in 3 micron size (is what ya want). Last time I looked it was about $38/pound.
I clean my bullets (about 100 at a time) with the non-petroleum brake cleaner, put them in a large vitamin pill bottle with about as much Danzac as will fill an empty 22LR case (needs more the first time to prime the pill bottle), tighten the lid and toss the bottle onto the media in my vibratory tumbler for a couple hours...Voila!
Then I pour the bullets out on a paper towel and with another paper towel under my palm, I roll the bullets around for a few seconds to polish off any dust or exess. They come out a shiny steel gray and it won't stick to your fingers (or at least not mine - very dry hands have I).
Great stuff!!!!
P.
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