[JLC]

Hi there… Newbie on this forum….

I have been shooting since 1976. I tried everything (small bore rifle and pistol competition, practical pistol shooting, clays, cowboy action shooting, black powder cartridge rifle shooting), had some measure of fun, not too much. In fact I stopped shooting ten years ago, and only started again last year.

Then, two months or so ago, I acquired a BSA Martini small action rifle, with heavy Douglas match barrel, chambered in 17 Hornady Mach 2, and sporting a 6x18 “Sweet 17” BSA scope. Love it! I fired 2000 rounds through that rifle in the past month, which is more than I have shot in many years.

In brief, I am hooked! As I am going to purchase land in Colorado, I am looking at doing some real varminting, and not just punching holes in paper. A coyote would be the upper size limit of anything I might shoot at.

I would also like to shoot a little further than the 100 to 150 yards the 17 HM2 allows – say, up to 300 yards at least. So…. I am ready to move up from rimfire to centerfire varminting cartridges. I have an old Ruger Model 77 (the one with the tang safety) in 308 Winchester, perfect condition, which I have not used for over 25 years. I was thinking of replacing the factory 308 thin barrel for a 243 Win heavy barrel. Any other caliber I could use? I was thinking of the 243, as with the right twist and bullet, it might make a fine varmint gun. As the 243 is a necked down 308, I don’t think I would have to do anything but rebarrel/rechamber, right?

I am also considering buying a Savage Model 12 Varminter Low Profile. It’s offered in 223 Rem, 22-250 Rem, and 204 Ruger. I would be tempted to get the 223 as I already have the reloading dies and cases. I heard the 223 is quite a bit easier on the chamber than the 22-250, and that the 223 barrel will last longer than a 22-250. I know nothing about the 204.

Anybody on this forum with experience of the Model 12?


JLC

 

[woodchuckchucker]

Welcome aboard!

This is going to cost you money by comming here. Money well spent. I can't help you out with Mod 12 info, but I sure love my Svg Mod 40. One of my favorite close range varmint rifles. Good luck in your quest, and again, welcome aboard. Bill.............

 

[JLC]

What is a svg Model 40?

Thanks for the welcome, Woodchuckchucker!

What is a svg Model 40? The only model 40 I know is the Remington 40 XB.

JLC

 

[FRED M]

Oldie's Answer


I have several Savage Mod 12's, A 12 BBVS-S and a 12 LPS, both where bought in 223 but the BBVS is now a 6BR.
I prefer the LPS stock it's not as bulky as the BBVS but it doesn't remove any weight from the rifle. Both with scopes are close to 11 lbs.,too heavy for me to lug around comfortably.
I opted for a CZ 527, in the same price range and now have a 7 lb rifle.
For shooting off a bench the heavy barrel varmint models are OK but if you're going to carry any distance, got for the thinner tube.
The CZ's are fine little guns(I have three) with wood that makes you not want to take them outside into the cruel world to get nicked,cut or scratched.

 

[eggman]

I like that you are considering a Savage Model 12 and think you would be very happy with it . I have owned 4 of them and all were shooters right out of the box except one and it was the first Savage I bought and installed a custom barrel myself as the factory barrel was junk. I guess that can happen with any make. I would like to see you look into the 204 Ruger as the cartridge for your Savage. It will do anything the 22-250 can do range wise with the recoil of a 223. The 204 is very flat shooting and you can see your hits and misses through the scope and not lose sight under recoil. The 204 may be a little harder than the 223 on barrels but not much. Since I started using a 20 caliber for groundhogs my other rifles stay in the safe and it was a Savage Model 12 in 204 that got me hooked. Good Luck.
Rodney

 

[CJ in Wy]

Welcome JLC
I think you have made some great choices in rebarreling the Ruger308 to 243(you could also do a 22-250 or ?) and getting a 12 LP(204 if you reload and 223 if you dont)Colorado has some great varmint hunting too
The 17 will take care of the close little critters(too small for coyotes IMHO).The 204 or 223 will get you out to 350yards with ease and if you opt for a fast twist(8 twist) barrel in a 22-250 or 243 you could go to 1000 yards on a good day with a little work.You will have to reload to utilize the fast twist barrels but would be well worth it!
The best red mist might just be the 55 Nosler out of a 243 but your gona need a brake to see it yourself

 

[woodchuckchucker]

Savage Mod 40

JLC, the Svg Mod 40 is a heavy barreled, laminated stocked, single shot, accu triggered, .22 Hornet. For a 200 yd varmint rifle, it is one of my Go-To rifles. I sure like mine. Later, Bill.........

 

[JLC]

Thanks to all

Thanks for all the replies, and the info about various calibers... Now I know what a Savage model 40 looks like!

I will check the Savage website and see what rifles they offer in 204 Ruger. I will definitely convert my Ruger 308 hunter into a 243 varminter.

JLC

 

[kaferhaus]

I'm not a fan of the .204 for anything past 200yds.

The wind kills it, retained energy is bad and it does eat throats. (ask me how I know...)

Colorado is often windy....

The .223 would be a better choice, better barrel life, longer effective range, wider selection of bullets and cheap factory ammo for plinking.

 

[jbh]

one thing you might want to consider

and I'm not sure if it's a problem anymore but for awhile there was aproblem with a shortage of 204 brass. Just my .02 cents. Welcome to the greatest forum anywhere and good luck!

 

[JLC]

Thanks for....

... the insights on the 204 Ruger.

Another question! I was just looking at the Brownells catalog. There are three rate of twist available for 243 barrels - 1 in 8, 10, and 12. What weight of bullets would be best stabilized by each rate of twist? Not quite sure what 243 bullets are available, or which are best for varminting.

JLC

 

[eggman]

I'm not a fan of the .204 for anything past 200yds.

The wind kills it, retained energy is bad and it does eat throats. (ask me how I know...)

Colorado is often windy....

The .223 would be a better choice, better barrel life, longer effective range, wider selection of bullets and cheap factory ammo for plinking.

I Disagree that the "wind kills it" . If you run any ballistic program you will see that the .204 40 gr. bullet is less affected by the wind at 500 yds at 204 Ruger velocities than a .223 50 gr. varmint bullet is at 500 yds at .223 Rem. velocites. I ran the 40 gr. Berger .204 bullet on ExBal at 3800 fps and a Berger 50 gr. MEF bullet at 3500 fps. and with a 10 mph.wind at 500 yds. the 50 gr. ,223 bullet has drifted 42 inches while the 40 gr. .204 Berger at 500 yds has only drifted 30 inches. That is 1 foot or 12 inches difference between the two. The 204 with the proper bullet weight is anything but killed by the wind. Everybody has their favorites but I just couldn't let that slide.

Rodney

 

[ghostsmoke55]

Savage model 12

I have a savage model 12 in a 223 heavy fluted barrel. It is a very accurate rifle. It is made to be fired from the bench unless you get a bell and carlson stock. I am a coyote hunter and I use a savage model 11 in a 223 which is also very accurate and has brought down more coyotes than I can count at this moment. I also have a savage model 11 in a 22-250 that is also very accurate. I have bushnell model 3200 5x15x40mm scope on each rifle. I think that you will not be dis-satisfied with either rifle. the newer savages have the accutrigger which is wonderful. there will be times when you will need the extra range of the 22-250 but I do use the 223 most fo the time. However, when I use the 22-250, I am set up for a long range ambush. I do not run an gun as with the 223. I am in my 60's and I put on a back pack and set out for the coyote. I have so much fun and I enjoy my life. I wish that I knew how to describe the hunt to people. Well, I hope that I have helped some. Ghost

 

[jerrold]

BR of all sizes

Don't jump too fast. Look at the BR class of rounds. 6BRstd. 6 br.short, 6BR long, 6BR neck down to 22, 6BR neck down and change shoulder angel. I have shot several of these and they are groundhog nightmares in the right twist and bullet.

 

[Snake River Marksman]

The 8 twist will handle the heaviest (longest) bullets, usually customs over 100gr. The 10 twist will handle the "Normal" hunting weight bullets up to roughly 100gr maybe up to 107 maybe not. The 12 twist MIGHT be iffy past 85 or 90 grains. Depends on the load, the barrel, the bullet, and how much magic you happen to have. Little in shooting is written in stone.

 

[kaferhaus]

I Disagree that the "wind kills it" . If you run any ballistic program you will see that the .204 40 gr. bullet is less affected by the wind at 500 yds at 204 Ruger velocities than a .223 50 gr. varmint bullet is at 500 yds at .223 Rem. velocites. I ran the 40 gr. Berger .204 bullet on ExBal at 3800 fps and a Berger 50 gr. MEF bullet at 3500 fps. and with a 10 mph.wind at 500 yds. the 50 gr. ,223 bullet has drifted 42 inches while the 40 gr. .204 Berger at 500 yds has only drifted 30 inches. That is 1 foot or 12 inches difference between the two. The 204 with the proper bullet weight is anything but killed by the wind. Everybody has their favorites but I just couldn't let that slide.

Rodney

I've run it too. But I have one and I can tell you it sucks in the wind.

We have a 1000yd range here with a small weather station with remote pickups placed all down the range.

We've fired everything you can think of at 200.300....etc all the way out to 1.000yds with the bigger bores. We restrict the small bores to 600yds.

The 204 was without doubt the worst performer at 600yds. (we didn't test anything with a smaller bore dia than that, nor did we test "short range" cartridges like the 221 etc.)

And we've set up chrono's at the muzzle and at 300yds to get a true picture of BC's. The 204s aren't showing the claimed BCs by a large margin.

Several guys here go to Wy each year to hunt dogs. 2 years ago 3 of us took .204s along and they ended up "benched" most of the time.

Hits were much easier with the .223s, 22-250s and 243s.

I know what the "science" says, but we haven't seen it in the real world and sure haven't seen it at the range.

WWW.pascagouladcm.com

 

[JLC]

Thanks for....

All the info... Wow! I will order a 243 barrel with the 1 in 8 twist for my Ruger Model 77, and I'll order a Savage Varminter in 223. That should get me covered. I'll definitely check on those BR rounds too - I have some ideas for a couple of Martini varminters... thanks, guys!

JLC

 

[CJ in Wy]

Depends on what you want to do with the 243 but if you go 8 twist you can shoot just about any bullet in it.Sure it favors the VLD bullets of 105 grains but they sure fly better in the wind than the lighter bullets.The 2 8 twist 6mm barrels I have will shoot the small 55grainer fair and make for some fine red mist!They are spinning so fast they are just looking for a reason to blow up.
The 12 twist however will limit you to 80? grains or less.
The BR case would allow the barrel to last longer but doent feed as well through the magazine.
Are we still helping

 

[JLC]

Are we still helping?

"Are we still helping?"


Yes you are! I got more helpful comments on this board than I expected, and that in very little time!

JLC

 

[CJ in Wy]

This might be of interest to you.I had a light 243 that I put a heavy 8 twist barrel on only I went 22-250.The smith I had do it did a real iffy job on the barrel but it still shoots the 75Amaxes preaty good.If I had it to do over(I still might) I would have put a 6mm barrel on it chambered for 243AI.
With a Boyds stock on it it handles great off the bench but I wouldnt want to carry it too far.
It looked kinda funny in the original stock,Top gun in pic.

http://photos.imageevent.com/cjnmn/guns/websize/old toy pics 107.jpg

But looks alright in the Boyds stock.

http://photos.imageevent.com/cjnmn/guns/websize/22250ior.jpg