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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I had a chance to shoot an Audette Ladder today with a Ruger 6PPC at 200 yds.

I used N135, Sierra 70 gr MK and Federal Match primers. I'd previously shot a ladder with multiple aiming points on a horizontal line and thought it made identifying individual bullet holes easier.

I've also inherited a roll of 36" wide graph paper, which made things even easier.

There were 13 aiming points and powder charges were incremented by 3 graduations on a Redding measure, starting at a setting of 256, or an estimated 27 gr. Each Redding graduation is about .1 gr and each load increment is about .3 gr.

This is a questionable substitute for weighed charges.

The first three shots---256, 259, 262----seemed to go together fairly well with a vertical spread of about .5". A later 3-shot group with the middle load of 259 was about 1" at 200 yds.

Shots 4 through 8-----265 through 277--- had a vertical spread of a little over .5". A later 3-shot group in the middle at 271 was about .75" at 200 yds.

Shots 9 through 11-----280 through 286---had a vertical spread of about .05", 1/2 of .1". A later 3-shot group in the middle at 283 was about .5" at 200 yds.

Shots 12 and 13------289 and 292---were possibly too hot. An additional shot was fired at each mark and neither were very close to the preceding shot If she won't group 2 shots, why fool with it. Limit the working range up through shot 11----286.

With the exception of shot 8, shoots 4 (265) through 11 (286) would have grouped into a 200 yd group of .5" high by .5" wide. Shot 8 is unexplained and won't be disregarded in later testing.

Today has demonstrated the usefulness of the multiple horizontal aiming points. There were 7 6mm bullet holes in an area of .5" X .5". It would have been difficult to impossible for me to have identified each hole in this area if it had been fired at a single aiming point.

I hope to wrap this up with a little more shooting weather.

A. Weldy
 

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How far apart on the horizontal are your aiming points, and what reference point do you use as an aiming point? I'm thinking of the "aim small-miss small" idea. And one last question, what size grid is on the graph paper?
I think you might be onto something here, something that I can incorporate into my own loading. Thanks for the update on your testing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
More details

Yep George on the N133 but I'm about out of it and having to wait to get more locally. I haven't shot this gun much but it did seem to like N133. If I can't get some soon, I might try some H322.

CTKEN, the aiming points were 1 1/4" blaze orange stickers----placed 2" apart on a horizontal grid line. I used a small pocket level to level the grid lines.

The major grid size is 1" and the minor is 1/8".

I'm not sure what you mean by "what reference point do you use as an aiming point?". I stuck 13 of the targets on the same horizontal grid line, 2" apart and each centered on a heavy vertical grid line. I did my best to aim on the center of each target.

Hope this helps.

A. Weldy
 

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You answered it with your note of the 1 1/4" aiming stickers. On my own targets, I use a circle that will just barely be bisected with the crosshairs of the scope I'm shooting; it will often be as small as 3/8" or can be as big as 2", depending on the size of the crosshairs in the scope, magnification, distance, etc. I was afraid you were shooting at the crossing point of a 1/4" grid at 200 yards, which I probably wouldn't be able to see! Thanks for the clarification. Ken
 

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Nice work, Alan. I've been shooting my ladders in a manner similar to how you did it in that I use a separate aiming point for each powder charge. Your reasoning is exactly right, if you'd shot all these at the same point of aim, the whole exercise would have been pointless because very quickly your holes would have overlapped and become useless.

That half-inch group at 200 sounds quite promising. I'd try a few 5-shot groups at that charge and if they still look good, then start tweaking your seating depth, if you think that's even necessary. Your gun is equipped with a $1.99 line level held on with red rubber bands, right? If not, that'll knock another tenth off that group right there. ;)

Your report should be most interesting to others who are intrigued by the Audette concept but don't really understand how it's done.
 

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Allan,
Man I wish the weather here would cooperate with shooting. Last time I went to the range I had to bust through the snow drift at the gate, and then I couldn't get down to the 'long' range. I've got 2 guns to dial in. Sounds like you are doing some productive range work though. Just be sure your loads aren't going to be too hot for the PD towns! I know you ain't the type to conserve lead, so I'd hate to see you show up with a bunch of unusable ammo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well fellers---

Mike, it appears I've totally wasted my time---George says I should be shooting N133 instead of N135. I'd like to shoot more ladders with N133, H322 and BM when the weather allows.

I had one shot that just didn't make sense and neglected to shoot it again--might have been the shooter.

This Audette thing is beginning to make sense once in a while but sometimes I just don't know what to think. Seems you and Paul have maybe had more succes---maybe the rest of us will learn more about it.

Russ and Kyle, this gun is a standard Ruger 77 but is the most accurate factory gun I've ever shot------this barrel cleans up just like a good custom barrel.

I doubt if this gun will show up in the dog towns---don't plan to shoot it a lot. The gun was bought for egg shoots and I'll probably save the barrel for that or just sell it to somebody that appreciates Rugers---just wish it had a Jewell trigger.

How long 'til spring ?

A. Weldy
 

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allen

Mike, it appears I've totally wasted my time---George says I should be shooting N133 instead of N135. I'd like to shoot more ladders with N133, H322 and BM when the weather allows.

I had one shot that just didn't make sense and neglected to shoot it again--might have been the shooter.

This Audette thing is beginning to make sense once in a while but sometimes I just don't know what to think. Seems you and Paul have maybe had more succes---maybe the rest of us will learn more about it.

Russ and Kyle, this gun is a standard Ruger 77 but is the most accurate factory gun I've ever shot------this barrel cleans up just like a good custom barrel.

I doubt if this gun will show up in the dog towns---don't plan to shoot it a lot. The gun was bought for egg shoots and I'll probably save the barrel for that or just sell it to somebody that appreciates Rugers---just wish it had a Jewell trigger.

How long 'til spring ?

A. Weldy
how's the ss viper comeing along ?? i'm thinking of 1 my self :eek:
 

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LUcky shooter, thanks for posting......

I'm learning! I hope to try some later on myself.

Wonder if it would help more if it were shot at 300?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Don't have 300 yds but------

think it would be better than 200.

I'd think any differences in loads would show up better at 300 than 200. I think Paul gets his good results at longer ranges.

I'd definitely try 300 if available. Hope you'll let us know your results.

A. Weldy
 

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Audette Ladder requires accurate powder increments...

I know you said you just hate to weigh charges, and I would rather not. But, I'll mention it again here: One of the biggest "Ah-HA!" moments I had in 2006 was how much less ambiguous ladder results became, once I started weighing every charge. I'll NEVER bother using a thrower again. Why? Simple... the Extreme Spread of my Harrell measure is often as much as .5x gn in 10 throws!!

So, instead of a .3 gn ladder with powder charges of-

28.3, 28.6, 28.9, 29.2, 29.5, 29.8. 30.1, 30.4, 30.7, 31.0 (to within .02 gn)

I might get (with a thrower)-

28.5, 28.4, 28.8, 28.95, 29.7, 29.6, 30.2, 30.3, 30.4, 31.1

So, instead of .3 gn increments, I got increments of-

-.1, +.4, +.15, +.75, -.1, +.6, +.1, +.1, +.7 :eek: This is far from linear!

It doesn't take a genius to see why it may be difficult to get meaningful data when shooting only one round per charge weight.:rolleyes:

When using the Audette Ladder, you are moving between harmonic nodes, etc, where small variations of charge weight have a marked change in POI. So, what I've come to appreciate is the "Ladder method" will yield much better results - be far less difficult to interpret, when my powder charge variations are as accurate as I can get them.

Powder throwers, including the Harrell and others are OUT when it comes to doing the Audette Ladder test. Once a forgiving load is found, i.e., one where plus/minus .2 grains is no big deal, then the throwers are the way to go (who's gonna weigh PD loads, right?)

Anyway, going to DI MXX-123 digital scale to be damn sure my ladder was accurate to .1 gn has been a major breakthrough for me when it comes to conducting and analyzing Ladder test results.

Mebby this will help...Hope so! YMMV;)

P.
 
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