[Clem in San Dog]

I shoot a ton of California Saber Tooth ground squirrels with .223 50 grain VMax and .243 70 grain NBTs here in Kalifornia. The tree huggers are leaning toward mandating the use of non-lead bullets for hunting in the state, claiming that condors are dying of lead poisoning from eating shot carcasses.

I wonder how much, if any, lead remains in the carcass chunks left after a skwerl gets thwacked by a VMax or NBT travelling in excess of 3000 feet per second.

What do you guys think?

Does anyone know of a study or article ever done on this subject?

Clem

 

[Coyote Duster]

I think allot of the lead vaporizes and possibly does contaminate the meat but I'm not sure. I have found several empty bullet jackets in deer and elk that I have shot with no exit wound and no trace of lead present. I always throw away any blood shot meat in that area when I butcher them assumbing that lead may be what caused it to be bloodshot.
This is all speculation on my part.

 

[NYCSTRIPES]

The only way to really tell is to have the meat checked out at the lab after a shot. Personally, I would suspect poisons rather than bullet lead for the dead birds. Poisons used by ranchers kill and keep killing after the pests are hit with the stuff.
Ken

 

[Greyfox]

Hmmm, I'm not sure I've seen pd chunks big enough to hold a piece of lead,
after being hit @ 4000fps with a Vmax. It all looks like red mist to me.

Rick

 

[AceBall]

My thougths..

lead cores do NOT vaporize on impact into the flesh, however lead and copper fragments DO end up everywhere, inside and out.

Yes, the bunny huggers will work every angle. This attack isn't new at all and like a bunch of others will resurface to the extreme during the coming months in preparation for 2008.

Fellows, things are bound to get tough for all shooting related sports, and EVERYONE on this board who is NOT an NRA member should be VERY ashamed!

Please join NOW.

Thanks,
Tom (Aceball) Mac

 

[StevenD]

Sources of Lead

I shoot a ton of California Saber Tooth ground squirrels with .223 50 grain VMax and .243 70 grain NBTs here in Kalifornia. The tree huggers are leaning toward mandating the use of non-lead bullets for hunting in the state, claiming that condors are dying of lead poisoning from eating shot carcasses.

I wonder how much, if any, lead remains in the carcass chunks left after a skwerl gets thwacked by a VMax or NBT travelling in excess of 3000 feet per second.

What do you guys think?

Does anyone know of a study or article ever done on this subject?

Clem

I believe that we need some good lawyering on this one.

A couple of notes on the Condor that I discovered has me wondering about the support that this lawsute will get. From what I've read, the game officials do not want this law for a variety of reasons.

One big one is that they can't tell the difference between lead-free bullets and bullets containing lead in every instance. So, they don't believe that it can be enforced.

A second reason is due to the concerns of "angering hunters and ranchers", which can have a devastating effect on the birds in due to another source mortality involving lead.

Not to downplay the threat any, but they have a lot of proving to do. There assertion is that the lead comes from bullets, but I find that hard to imagine, since their primary food source is supposed to be from larger mammals, not from murdered rodentia. Besides, the sources of lead are difficult to prove, since the birds migrate to Arizona as well, which happens to be loaded with copper and lead mines.

But I know their arguments..."If we can just save one life of one bird, isn't it worth it!!"

And, it only takes one worthless judge to swing a vote that can result in bench legislation that will promote their lifestyle of eating nuts and twigs.

I guess we better get a little busier as activists ourselves... Me included.

 

[Coyote Duster]

I second your last comment. If you enjoy shooting sports you should be an NRA member.

 

[StevenD]

One correction...

I guess in one source I read, the condor ventured back and forth to AZ and I know that there are active lead mines there. Another source says that the birds do not migrate. I know that mines containing lead used to be in operation in California, but I don't know if that is still the case.

 

[Paul Workman]

I'd have to say lots of metal blows out the far side...

I wonder how much, if any, lead remains in the carcass chunks left after a skwerl gets thwacked by a VMax or NBT travelling in excess of 3000 feet per second.

What do you guys think? Clem

On many occations I have had PDs stack up on a mound like bowling pins. By hitting the front "pin", several can be dispatched with one shot, evidence of shrapnel passing thru one and into another...and another.... After inspecting a mounds with multiple dead from a single 50 V-Max from a 223, the "colateral damage" was clearly inflicted by pieces from the V-Max after exititing the first PD.

I suspect the amount of lead that remains in a PD would depend on many factors and require a significant scientific study to ascertain the answer. My guess the bullet thing in Kalifornia is just another "red herring" attempt at affronting the shooting community...yet again.


P.

 

[T.Zimm]

Kalifornia Kondors

You say you shoot a lot of squirrels. Have you ever witnessed these mythical birds swooping in to Krunch a Killed squirrel? I would guess that the Hawk and Coyote population would suffer before any Kondors. Sure you are putting lead into the environment, but I suspect that mercury in fish would be more of a problem than bullet fragments. I am dubious of their claims but fear their agenda!! I wish these radicals would fix their own backyard first ie....inner city crime and homelessness before attacking us.

 

[Hawkeye]

Ditto. The $35.00 yearly membership is peanuts, 3 boxes of bullets. There is strength in numbers, the NRA is the leading edge in conserving our gun/hunting rights.

I thought we were talking about lead fragments? he he he

 

[Clem in San Dog]

T.Zimm,

Good question, I see lots of raptors, crows and magpies chowing down on 'sploded skwerl chowder. They seem pretty darned healthy to me!

Clem

 

[Paul Workman]

T.Zimm,

Good question, I see lots of raptors, crows and magpies chowing down on 'sploded skwerl chowder. They seem pretty darned healthy to me!

Clem

Excellent point! According to some articles on the Condor's delema, suposedly there was "...an elevated lead content in the dead birds' blood stream". The leap to varmint shooting as the source is without ANY evidence to date - a position lacking ANY scientific proof what so ever.

But, when was it necessary for the legislature to have the facts before passing stupid laws?? What did Goldie Hawn say? "Be afraid...Be VERY afraid!"

P.

 

[1badshee]

How long do these birds live? Isnt lead poisoning a cumulative thing.

 

[T.Zimm]

PB poisoning

Yes it is cumulative and builds in fatty tissues. The higher on the food chain the more at risk you are. Could come from anywhere. Maybe the Kondors found a taste for paint chips?

 

[StevenD]

60 years or so

How long do these birds live? Isnt lead poisoning a cumulative thing.

I was wondering the same thing about the life span of these birds. I read somewhere that it could be up to 60 years!! I was a little shocked by that. It seems there would be a gazillion of them, PCP's or no.