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Timinator , to more specifically answer your Question : if I were building an Outfit for up to 1500 Yards , I would probably go with a 338 Lapua or one of the even bigger cased 338s . This summer I'm going to attempt some 1000 yard shots if the conditions are right . Where I shoot , this usually happens less than one day per week ( mainly wind and believe it or not ...fog ). My own personal esthetic choice is to shoot something that looks and feels like a rifle not a 60 pound sled , but beauty is in the eye of the beholder . I would be interested in what you finally decide to build .
 

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James is "Dead Nuts" as usual.

Go to my profile and link to my webpage to see some 1000 yard equipment. When I won the rookie hunt last year I chambered a 300 WBY mag barrel for my HG hoping to get an opportunity at a 1 mile PD. I didn't get to go due to a job change but these rifles have shot 1/2 MOA at 1000 yards and agged under 1 MOA for all the matches I have shot with them (nearly 20 matches with each). I have no doubt I could tip a dog at 1000 with either rifle.

Optics = Nightforce 12-42 BR.

FWIW.
 

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So is going to the moon.We do the 1000 yd thing as a personal challenge. I got mine several years ago with a fast twist 22-250. I trained for it by shooting at 1000 yds. Hold over? who would holdover at 1000 yds. Somebody has some learning to do about longrange shooting. I shot a 5 inch 5 shot group at 1000 yd last week. I can hit the 18 inch gong every time once I get my settings. If that is silly maybe you should take up another sport, I find it rather satisfying.
 

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Luck,long range and making your own luck

The 6-284 aught to get you to 1000 but would be small after that.The 6-284 of mine will hit 80% inside of 750 yards but the hit % drops way off after 1000 yards.



That is early morning or late evening when the wind and mirage are tolerable.Even then its best to put any wind at your back and shoot from an elevated position under very dry conditions to read the misses.Bigger rounds leave a bigger footprint and are easier to spot.If you cant see where you are hitting all is lost!!



I had the pleasure of shooting with Bruce LaCoe a few years ago when he was still trying to get into the 2000 yard club(he has since made it) The unit he used was chambered in 30WSM throated for 240 grain MKs @ something like 2400fps. It had one purpose and that was to be able to put numerous rounds downrange in a very accurate manner.The scope mounts cost more than most of my prairie dog guns but had a LOT of adjustment. The conditions we had that week where REAL bad for long range but we did give it a try a couple of times=the key for him was a consistent or non existent wind.That 240 grain slug spent way too much time in the air to be consistent with the nasty winds we had.
I tryed 2200 yards with the 50 BMG,if prairie dogs where the size of small cars I would have gotten one with all five rounds [email protected] 2200 yards even 1/2MOA is a big circle:eek:
If 1000 yards is tuff 2000 is REAL challenging :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Wow... you guys have been busy!

I just got a chance to come back and check if I'd got any replys to my post. It was pretty funny reading the "dialog" along the way. Thanks (to some) for the ideas on calibers. I have several capable guns for shots out to 600 yards or so. I was just hoping to add a little range to the arsenal. I wasn't sure if a 6x284 would reach out to 1500 but I was pretty sure it's good to 1000. I've heard it's a lot easier to shoot than the 6.5x284's and doesn't give up much. I'm really not looking to build a 5K gun, or a 1500+ yard gun. Just something to shoot in the early morning when the shimmer isn't there or later in the day if it's too windy for the .20 and .22's. Tim
 

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Well, maybe cause my barrel ain`t 30 inches

but I`m just tickled pink to hit the inside of the toilet bowl in the morning:D

Two guys go into the mens room at the same time. Pretty soon one says "dang, the water in the toilet bowl is sure cold...:eek:
The other says, yup, and it`s deep too........:D

Nuff said............
 

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Seriously Tirm....

I don`t do dogtowns, and in fact, I don`t recall ever shooting at a PD, but with all the random "sound shots" I throw into the air in all directions, I`m thinking I may be in the 2000 yd club and don`t know it. :D

However, on a slightly different line of thinking, and depending on your budget, you might try something us po` folk out west do. A lot of people here are "One gun' shooters, and you know what they say about a guy that shoots only one gun (I`m not that guy, but read on).

With a safe full of different guns, I find it interesting that I pack 1 of 2 guns around most of the time. I have a 223 M700 ("Spanky")



that is a good coyote/Bobcat/crow gun for shooting west of the Cascades in the thick stuff. It`s deadly out to 300 yds and that is a rare shot here. This is obviously not a LR rifle.

Ok, here`s my vote: For almost all my shooting East of the Cascades, in open country, I had a barrel made for long range big game. I say long range as in 400-500 yds, which IMHO is too far for most common factory big game rifles to perform properly on a RELIABLE basis in a "normal" hunting situation.

It`s a 358 STW. Before you choke, read on and keep an open mind.
I shoot Nosler Ballistic Tip 225 grain bullets made for the 35 Whelan. They chrono at 3255 + or -. The BC is very high as they are long boattails. At close range the bullet designed for 2000 fps should be used for head or neck shots only (a #2 vertabra shot tears the head 3/4 off a Blacktail deer).

At 400 to 500 yds, head and neck shots are not realistic if you are shooting in a hunting situation without benches or bags. This works out fine as the bullet has slowed enough to do much less damage to the "big" part of a deer or elk. I shoot for the liver/last rib connection and they always fall down.

The rifle is pretty accurate (under an inch, which seems good for a very lightweight fluted barrel (made for carry) and so far the best shot on a coyote was 505. Not that far but I knew I could hit him at that distance.

With the excellent BC of 358`s and 338`s (Lapua) (and wicked accuracy with heavy long barrels burning slow powder) maybe this is your ticket.

1) You can hunt your big game with it, and not ruin any meat on close shots (head shots)
2) You can whack big game at longer ranges (to your ability) and know they will drop every time.
3) You can blow up coyotes at 300 like a grenade hit them
4) You can shoot PDogs and
A) See your hits and misses
B) Buck wind
C) Practice on PDogs with same rifle you use for big game.

After 1400 rounds, I thought the barrel would be ready to set back but so far the throat erosion is just detectable and minor. I sure like this gun and cannot wait to use the next 1400 rounds to get my 600 yd P-Dog, hehe.:cool:
 

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Good read...

VH Magazine, Oct-Dec 2006 issue #60, Page 5, Ritchie R. Moore's article, "Creating a 1/2 MOA Rifleman." Here's a fellow with lots and lots of 1000yrd experience. He offers an outstanding review on rifleman techinques.

This one article alone is worth the price of the entire magazine.

Mostly for ya'll but sometime me. :)
 

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6 284 Vs 6.5 284

I Think That Is What This Is Down Too!!!! I Have A 6 284 And Wish I Had A 6.5 .... Now On The Other Hand What Do You Put On Top Another 1500.00 Nightforce Wow !!!! Coule Be A 5000.00 Dollar Dog Gun
 

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Just to add more confusion to the mix

See the diversity of the 1000 yd competitor's choices at:

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweekarchive.html


A lot of 6mm's, 6.5's and now the 7mm WSM is starting to make a strong showing and setting some records in the F Class.

And wow, there are some very nice looking guns shown there as well.
 

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Of course, Ackamn says it's impossible, but he DID mention something about hiring an "expurt" to teach him next year ;) ;)

No, Ackman didn't say it's impossible. He said why the heck do it? After some of the responses, it's obvious.....to tell everyone and boast about it. But one thing for sure, if I ever want someone to teach me there are a whole ton of "ex-purts" out there.

And to all the target guys who do their shooting at a range......in squirreltown or dogtown or rockchucktown, there's no 800 lb concrete shooting bench and most likely no overhead cover. There are NO windflags to show what's going on out there. It's often very hot and usually either windy or REALLY windy. The target is where you find it with binoculars and it won't be at nice even distances like in a match. The target will be a lot smaller than an 18" gong and it'll be crawling on the ground, not mounted 4' above......that makes a difference. Plus, with 4 legs it may be gone before you get on it with the scope so there isn't all the time in the world. Varmint shooting and target shooting aren't the same.
 

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The way we hunt pd's, there's no way 1000 is possible. Walk, stop, shoot. No benches, no trucks. We would spend more time fixing flats than shooting since almost everything in the West Texas dogtown has thorns. Even though W TX is basically flat, there's still enough variation in the topo that sitting or kneeling (carefully, thorns!) can lose your shot. For us, much over 400 is the luck of the land and dogs. Personally, I'd rather walk around for 3 hours with a 17 HMR or 22 WMR and shoot a couple of hundred rounds than I would to lug a pickup load of 'stuff' and a 15# rifle. The name of the game is to have fun and don't shoot any cattle.
 

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CJ : That Pond Pic. reminded me of ....

a lesson : be very careful when ranchers kids give you directions on where to shoot Pdogs . Maybe 15 years ago , I was in Northern Montana and stopped to get Permission at a Ranch . The teenager there said : "sure , no problem .... lots of Pdogs just bear left around the big Pond and shoot that far mountainside . Watch out for the Cactus going in and be careful not to cross that big fence line because it's Indian Reservation Land and they could confiscate everything you own . Lastly , to get back and avoid the Cactus , take the elevated road which runs thru the center of the Pond. " I had a great day of shooting and instead of backtracking with the 4WD Eagle SW , I took the kids advice . So now I'm headed across the elevated dirt pile road , maybe 10 ft. above the Pond surface . Man , the path gets narrower and narrower ....with not even enough room to get out and stand . What to do ??? I'm about 3/4 the way across and I don't drive backwards worth a hoot . I just gunned it and made it to the otherside where I had to slam on the brakes cuz I was in some sort of grass higher than the car windows , and it was full of cattle . Real slow , I finally made it back to the main road . Darn kid !
 

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use a 6mm AI or any big 6 for 1000yds, It would take a 6.5mm for 1500 yds. But like the guys said, you are not going to hit many at 1000, or 1500, but it can be done.

Mark
 

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Long-range varminting

Successfully shooting PDs, or anything else for that matter, at 1000 yards does not “just Happen”. It requires effort directed towards that objective. An appropriate rifle, cartridge, sighting system, shooting bench, ammo, a good spotter, the right location, and favorable conditions are all needed to make the shot. Timinator’s question is asking for input on what cartridges would be helpful in reaching his goal of shooting varmints at long range. He realizes that the standard 223, 22-250, 204, 220, 243, 6mm, etc. varmint rifle is not an ideal choice for long range varmint shooting and is asking what might be a better choice. Yes, as others have mentioned an F-Class or 1000 yard Light Bench Rest gun would not be far from what a 1000 yard varmint gun might look like.

Hit rates on PDs at 1000 yards are not high, probably comparable to Major League batting averages, for folks that are properly prepared. At this point it should be noted that preparation is not limited to equipment, location, and conditions, being prepared will also include a whole lot of practice shooting at long range. Someone planning on shooting varmints at long range will spend way more time at the 300, 550 yard (rifle silhouette range) and longer ranges than on the 100 yard line (referred to as “the point blank range” by some of the 1000 yard bench rest shooters I know) at the local range.

Comparing long-range varmint shooting to long-range target shooting is difficult. For one thing matches are shot when they are scheduled, conditions be damned. And there are days when those folks have a hard time keeping all their shots on the paper. Long-range varmint shooting has a smaller target but is done under the best conditions available during the hunt. In varmint shooting if the conditions aren’t right you put away the long-range gun and pull out the 223 or 22-250 and go shooting. A different set of rules to be sure.

For the folks the believe that the BS Meter is being pegged when people talk about making 1000 yard shots on PDs I would suggest that they look at the things they are good at the things they are not so good at. For example I am a lousy shotgun shot, “can’t hit a barn from the inside with all the doors shut” lousy, but I don’t question other’s ability to shoot 125 straight, or more, at trap, or the guy that works for Bennelli (I think) that can shoot 8 or 9 hand thrown clays. Those are things that they have obviously worked hard to be able to do. The same holds true for long-range varmint shooting.

Good Shooting at whatever range,
Dee
 

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I would suggest finding the size of record setting groups at 1000yds. I remember reading about a 1000 yd group that was 4.75 inches. I was suprised that even a custom built rifle would group that well. But a 4.75 inch group is not a prairie dog killer.
 

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That may be for 10 shot groups

I think that 5 shot group records are under 2.00 now for 1000 yds.

A 7mm WSM shooter just set 2 records in the UK at about 2.7", again with 5 shots.

That is just about Minute of Prairie Target.

So, it's entirely possible.
 

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I think that 5 shot group records are under 2.00 now for 1000 yds.

A 7mm WSM shooter just set 2 records in the UK at about 2.7", again with 5 shots.

That is just about Minute of Prairie Target.

So, it's entirely possible.
Wow, that is impressive. I am happy to kill groundhogs at 200 to 300 yds.
 

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I used a 6.5X284 Shehane for my 1130 yard prarie dog. Rifle was built for shooting the long range dogs, trued Rem SA, Shehane stock, Nightforce scope, Kreiger 30" tube, 140 SMK bullets and lots of luck. When it is dry you can spot your own shots and adjust from there.

Mike
 

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One shot one kill?

I used a 6.5X284 Shehane for my 1130 yard prarie dog. Rifle was built for shooting the long range dogs, trued Rem SA, Shehane stock, Nightforce scope, Kreiger 30" tube, 140 SMK bullets and lots of luck. When it is dry you can spot your own shots and adjust from there.

Mike
You don't have to answer that.
 
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