I've seen some great deals on Ruger 22 hornet rifles lately. Does anyone think they are useful? Or would a 221 Fireball be a minimum in general for yotes?
Thanks Brad
Thanks Brad
22 Hornet for Predators
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pillshooter
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godsdog answered his question directly and with as much experiance as one could want.in 1965 from a guy and since then I've killed close to 800 Coyotes with it, thousands & thousands of Jackrabbits & Squirrels and in the process wore out 2 barrels and am going for a third. I love the Hornet and now own 4 of them. A lot of the guys try to limit the Hornet to a 150 yd gun and in some instances maybe that's about right but with a 45 gr bullet at 2700 fps, there's sure a lot of Coyotes died at 300 yds over the years and more than one big Muley Buck. Hell, the Eskimos used it on EVERYTHING and someone forgot to tell them not to shoot bears with it, let alone Wolves, Carabou & Moose!
enough said imo
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OKAY-OKAY! Honestly! I just want to know one thing. How much do you hold over, to kill a coyote at 300 yards with a 22 Hornet. A foot or a foot and half?
Keep in mind I am an "avid" Hornet fan, but once again I am from Missouri and My grandmothers's maiden name on "both sides" of my family was Thomas.
Keep in mind I am an "avid" Hornet fan, but once again I am from Missouri and My grandmothers's maiden name on "both sides" of my family was Thomas.
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200 Posts
..The hornet is fun to play with shooting crows, starlings & groundhogs out to 150yds. But if I was to shoot a coyote I'ld limit it to 200yds. with the fireball...For a good clean kill...I know they will drop 1 farther out but that's just my rule...If I'm looking to shoot a yote at longer ranges I just get the .243 with 70gr noslers out...JMO...
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Sonny, I don't know what loads you shoot, but in years back before Vmax's & such, I was always limited to the round nose bullets to fit in the danged clip on my rifle. (Now that I've got Single-Shots, I have more choices) Loads back in the 60's, 70's & 80's usually were either Rem. 45 gr HP's or Win. 46 gr Hp's over about 11.2 grs of IMR 4227. Back then, in order to put one in the boiler of a Coyote at around 300 yds, I had to hold about 15 inches or so above his hairline if he was sideways. Depends on where you got your scope sighted in to. Mine's zeroed @ 150 yds and the TC Contender with the 23" Barrel is zeroed @ 200 yds. Nowdays, using the vmax 40 gr with 11.3 grs of AA#9 @2900 fps the bullet flies a coupla inches flatter but don't have the thump a good 45 gr does. 300 yards is past normal ranges to shoot the Hornet at Coyotes unless that's all you got but most of the Coyotes we call in are anywhere from, biting your gun barrel to about 40 yds and the Hornet works real good there and the pelt damage is not bad at all, most of the time. It's all about prime pelts with a minimum "Hole" in it, for me. Some years we only get 50 or 60 good dogs and some years over a hundred. $60 Coyote pelts are a thing of the past nowdays. We are lucky to average $22. I am really likeing the 221 FB/40gr. vmx for Coyotes although I shoot a 222 Sako Vixen and a 788/223 also. Still, the Hornet is still getting it's share too.
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Hornet
Godsdog
I have a Browning Micro Hunter in 22 Hornet and one in 17 AH. The 22 Hornet is zero'd at 3/4" high at 100 yds. A friend of mine and I have identical rifles like this. They consistently shoot five inches low at 200 yards sighted in, in this manner. We shot groundhogs with em just past two hundred yards with the hold over. Usually it means a knock down-a-roll around and then they are up and running for the den. Very little horsepower left at that range. This is using factory off the shelf Hornady 35 gr V-Max, the reason for that is the pinpoint accuracy, that is extremely consistent out to about 150 yds.
All this being said, I just could never have imagined anyone using this set up for coyotes at an unbelievable yardage such as 300 that you mentioned. I love my Hornets, but will continue to use them for foxes and such at the ranges that I am capable of shooting it accurately without guessing on the holdover. I have to many other better options available to me in the gun safe.
Just the thought of what you have stated, amazes me. Now inside 100-150 yds, yes I would cut down on a coyote with a Hornet.
Godsdog
I have a Browning Micro Hunter in 22 Hornet and one in 17 AH. The 22 Hornet is zero'd at 3/4" high at 100 yds. A friend of mine and I have identical rifles like this. They consistently shoot five inches low at 200 yards sighted in, in this manner. We shot groundhogs with em just past two hundred yards with the hold over. Usually it means a knock down-a-roll around and then they are up and running for the den. Very little horsepower left at that range. This is using factory off the shelf Hornady 35 gr V-Max, the reason for that is the pinpoint accuracy, that is extremely consistent out to about 150 yds.
All this being said, I just could never have imagined anyone using this set up for coyotes at an unbelievable yardage such as 300 that you mentioned. I love my Hornets, but will continue to use them for foxes and such at the ranges that I am capable of shooting it accurately without guessing on the holdover. I have to many other better options available to me in the gun safe.
Just the thought of what you have stated, amazes me. Now inside 100-150 yds, yes I would cut down on a coyote with a Hornet.
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Well, one thing: it sure makes a difference where you hunt as to what kind of gun you need. And, how you hunt. Out in the great open plains, or flat large farm country, if you are walking, you can't have too much gun. In these nice little valleys in KY and TN sitting or popping over a hill, it is another thing entirely.
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Sonny, I didn't know that 300 yds was that far.
Guess I won't tell about shooting groundsquirrels at that distance with the Hornet then. As for the 17 Ack. Imp., I have mine sighted in dead on @ 200 yds shooting the 25 gr. vmx for squirrels and a 300 yd shot is "Nothing" for it to do. Just got to watch the wind.
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We've been using the 17 AI Hornet for Coyotes shooting the 25 gr Hndy HP (It penetrates better than a vmx) We killed a coupla Coyotes last winter out close to the 300 yd. mark but you have to get it into the boiler. That little bullet is running out of steam fast at that distance. Those 35 gr. vmax's you shoot in your 22 Hornet run out of steam a lot faster than a heavier bullet too. Besides that they got the BC of a flat rock! In my new TC Contender (G1) 22 Hornet with the 23" Bull Barrel, I'm going to use 40 gr vmx's for squirrels and 45 gr Sierra spitzers or 45 gr Hornady pointed SP's in it for Coyotes. They'll fly a lot better than the round-nose HP's. Why ain't you reloading for yours? You've limited yourself.
Guess I won't tell about shooting groundsquirrels at that distance with the Hornet then. As for the 17 Ack. Imp., I have mine sighted in dead on @ 200 yds shooting the 25 gr. vmx for squirrels and a 300 yd shot is "Nothing" for it to do. Just got to watch the wind.
We've been using the 17 AI Hornet for Coyotes shooting the 25 gr Hndy HP (It penetrates better than a vmx) We killed a coupla Coyotes last winter out close to the 300 yd. mark but you have to get it into the boiler. That little bullet is running out of steam fast at that distance. Those 35 gr. vmax's you shoot in your 22 Hornet run out of steam a lot faster than a heavier bullet too. Besides that they got the BC of a flat rock! In my new TC Contender (G1) 22 Hornet with the 23" Bull Barrel, I'm going to use 40 gr vmx's for squirrels and 45 gr Sierra spitzers or 45 gr Hornady pointed SP's in it for Coyotes. They'll fly a lot better than the round-nose HP's. Why ain't you reloading for yours? You've limited yourself.
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The hornet is a great cartridge. I have killed groundhogs at 200yds with my Ruger #1. I currently have a Ruger 77/22 that I am having rebarreled to 19 Calhoon because I am tired of spending more time trying to find a load that I can depend on than hunting. I WOULD NOT BUY A RUGER. I have owned 3 rugers in the hornet. They were all erractic in performance. I shot some great groups - 3/8 inch 3 shot groups at 100 yds. But most were 1.5 to 2.5 inches at 100yds. I think you will regret buying a Ruger.
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Browning Hornets
Godsdog
The reason I don't reload for the 22 Hornet is simple. The Hornady 35 gr V-Max's right off the shelf shoots 1/2" five-shot groups. Yes, that's the truth, zero exaggeration, many witnesses. I've tried various other loads and nothing comes close to that. I use it primarily for foxes at called ranges, so speed and distances has never been as important as pin point accuracy to me.
I am currently playing with the 17 AH that I had built from another Browning Micro Hunter, looking for loads that please me for foxes. I have a T/C Contender in 17 AH. I want to shoot the 25 gr Bergers at around 3000-3100fps, NOT 3700-3800fps. If I need speed and flatness way out there I go to the Cooper Locker, or I grab one of the 20 calibers I have setting in the gun room. I am mostly playing around with the three Hornets for foxes. I am gonna call them closer than 200-300 yds. I live in the East, a long shot is 100 yds.
Godsdog
The reason I don't reload for the 22 Hornet is simple. The Hornady 35 gr V-Max's right off the shelf shoots 1/2" five-shot groups. Yes, that's the truth, zero exaggeration, many witnesses. I've tried various other loads and nothing comes close to that. I use it primarily for foxes at called ranges, so speed and distances has never been as important as pin point accuracy to me.
I am currently playing with the 17 AH that I had built from another Browning Micro Hunter, looking for loads that please me for foxes. I have a T/C Contender in 17 AH. I want to shoot the 25 gr Bergers at around 3000-3100fps, NOT 3700-3800fps. If I need speed and flatness way out there I go to the Cooper Locker, or I grab one of the 20 calibers I have setting in the gun room. I am mostly playing around with the three Hornets for foxes. I am gonna call them closer than 200-300 yds. I live in the East, a long shot is 100 yds.
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Guess that must be me!
The 17M4 will will drive the 20 VMax to 4000 fps, as will the 17FB.
These aren't "extreme" loads, but are ones used by many of the Small Caliber guys. Check over on www.saubier.com. Good place to learn about small caliber stuff, what to use, and what's "over the top."
You might want to subscribe to Small Caliber News.
Alex
3700-3800 fps isn't much of a push, using either AA-1680 (12.6 gr.), 20 gr. VMaxes and WSR primers in a Winchester case, or just replacing the 1680 with N-120 (12.1 gr.). Primer pockets last forever (more than 7 reloadings), and accuracy is exceptional.
The 17M4 will will drive the 20 VMax to 4000 fps, as will the 17FB.
These aren't "extreme" loads, but are ones used by many of the Small Caliber guys. Check over on www.saubier.com. Good place to learn about small caliber stuff, what to use, and what's "over the top."
You might want to subscribe to Small Caliber News.
Alex
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I'm not going to join in on the Hornet for coyote debate, but my Ruger No.3 with a Pac-Nor Super Match barrel in 17AH launches the 20gr Berger or V-Max right at 3810 fps using WW cases, 6-1/2 primers and 12.6grs of A1680, and shoots a ten shot group smaller than a dime every time, and the cases last a very long time.
Pure death on ground squirrels, one of my favorite fun rifles.
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About the size of a 10-22, with 400 yard 'squirrel ability'. (Yep, the flyer is operator error.....)
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I've never shot a coyote with this rifle/round, but would not hesitate to do so if the opportunity presented itself within reasonable range (you can define reasonable yourself). But 3800 fps+ from a 17 AH is not hard to get with the 20gr bullet.
Now with that bullet in my 17M4.....that's an entirely different story.....
Pure death on ground squirrels, one of my favorite fun rifles.
About the size of a 10-22, with 400 yard 'squirrel ability'. (Yep, the flyer is operator error.....)
I've never shot a coyote with this rifle/round, but would not hesitate to do so if the opportunity presented itself within reasonable range (you can define reasonable yourself). But 3800 fps+ from a 17 AH is not hard to get with the 20gr bullet.
Now with that bullet in my 17M4.....that's an entirely different story.....
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Awesome shooting Rick
Thanks for chiming in there Rick. That is some nice shooting there. The 17 AH is a sweet heart that's for sure. Alex runs em up like that from his Coopers(plural). I have done it in my Contender, but I am from the other persuasion. I am slowing things down in my Browning 17 AH for Gray Fox pelt preservation with the 17 AH as a "call gun", sorta like a "call girl" only better, cheaper at least after the initial sticker price.
Godsdog, there are lots of folks that run em out there that fast. Trust Alex's opinion, he won't steer you wrong. I would say he could write books about this stuff, but he already has. He is usually so deep in the weeds technically that I can't follow him anyway.
Thanks for chiming in there Rick. That is some nice shooting there. The 17 AH is a sweet heart that's for sure. Alex runs em up like that from his Coopers(plural). I have done it in my Contender, but I am from the other persuasion. I am slowing things down in my Browning 17 AH for Gray Fox pelt preservation with the 17 AH as a "call gun", sorta like a "call girl" only better, cheaper at least after the initial sticker price.
Godsdog, there are lots of folks that run em out there that fast. Trust Alex's opinion, he won't steer you wrong. I would say he could write books about this stuff, but he already has. He is usually so deep in the weeds technically that I can't follow him anyway.
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I looked in my little "Blue Book" of reloading records and found one intrance where I got 3788 fps w/ 20 gr. vmx over 12.6 grs of T-680 powder and a note included stating No Pressure signs. I had the 25 gr. vmax in mind when I was questioning the 3700 to 2800 fps in the 17 AI Hornet and I'll still stick with that remark. At 3500 to 3600 fps, my Hornet brass was starting to take a beating and show pressure with the 25 gr bullets. I just finished forming up 500 rounds of 17 AI Hornet and I loaded them with 12.2 gr. of T-680 / 20 gr. Vmax and didn't even run them over the Chrono. It's sighted dead on at 200 yds and last Sunday I got about 200 rounds of them "Fireformed" on Squirrels and the accuracy was phenominal. I still like the 25 gr. bullets better, but I had the 20 grainers and they do blow up a squirrel. The 20 grain bullet doesn't have the range of the 25 or 28 gr 17 cal. bullets even when it is going at light speed. The 28 gr Calhoon HP is a good Coyote Pelt bullet in the Hornet or the 17 FB. I'm getting better brass life with 25 gr bullets if I keep them at 3400 fps +/-.
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GD, we're of the same mind on...
... the 25 grer. I prefer 20's in the 17AH myself, 25's in the 17M4, and 25 and 30's in the 17 Rem.
However, you're right on about the 25er. If Sonny slows 'em down much more, he'll have to get a slingshot.
Great little cartridge. Probably one of the best kept secrets of the shooting world.
Alex
... the 25 grer. I prefer 20's in the 17AH myself, 25's in the 17M4, and 25 and 30's in the 17 Rem.
However, you're right on about the 25er. If Sonny slows 'em down much more, he'll have to get a slingshot.
Great little cartridge. Probably one of the best kept secrets of the shooting world.
Alex
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I have found the 35 vmax hornady to be very consistant also. Just that it consistantly shot 1.25 groups in the Ruger (gag) I shot some 2.5 inch groups at 200 yds, which would be plenty accurate for coyotes and probably ok for groundhogs.
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Charlie: Not having a strain guage or transducer equipment to measure CUP, I can only say that this load is used by many other shooters of this caliber, was published by Alex and Kindler in SCN and his 17 book, and all 'normal' pressure indicators are nominal.
My primers are still showing a good radius on the edges, no primer flow into the firing pin hole, cases (and we're talkin' Hornet cases here....) seem to last more than 8 firings so far, the most any of them have been shot, and the pockets are still nice and snug.
These indications tell me I COULD go a bit higher in charge weight, but common sense and prudence say otherwise. It is a perfectly safe load in this Ruger single shot, and I've been shooting it now for exactly five years with right at 800 rounds downrange to date.
Keep in mind that this is the "bank vault" falling block Ruger also, tight neck chamber shooting only 20 grain bullets. This load is not straining either the tin-foil Hornet cases, or the rifle. As a sidenote, all bullets are coated with WS2, not that it makes that much difference, but still a factor to keep in mind.
I appreciate your comment about younger shooters and older rifles, and I always recommend using published data from manuals for those not so experienced, but this is a wildcat caliber, and published data is not available from any bullet makers manual. You do realize that we're talking about the 17 Ackley Hornet here, and not the 22 Hornet or 22 K-Hornet, right?
My primers are still showing a good radius on the edges, no primer flow into the firing pin hole, cases (and we're talkin' Hornet cases here....) seem to last more than 8 firings so far, the most any of them have been shot, and the pockets are still nice and snug.
These indications tell me I COULD go a bit higher in charge weight, but common sense and prudence say otherwise. It is a perfectly safe load in this Ruger single shot, and I've been shooting it now for exactly five years with right at 800 rounds downrange to date.
Keep in mind that this is the "bank vault" falling block Ruger also, tight neck chamber shooting only 20 grain bullets. This load is not straining either the tin-foil Hornet cases, or the rifle. As a sidenote, all bullets are coated with WS2, not that it makes that much difference, but still a factor to keep in mind.
I appreciate your comment about younger shooters and older rifles, and I always recommend using published data from manuals for those not so experienced, but this is a wildcat caliber, and published data is not available from any bullet makers manual. You do realize that we're talking about the 17 Ackley Hornet here, and not the 22 Hornet or 22 K-Hornet, right?
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